posted November 06, 2002 07:17 PM            

So, I don't think that the goal should be to have EVERY Superman story, or even EVERY Pre-Crisis Superman story, in Archive format. When I'm done here, I'm going to post a related comment on James' thread on More than 1 DCU Archive a month.

Having said that, I do believe that the goal of the Archive program should be to reprint everything that merits Archiving in chronological (sort-of) order. I wouldn't have cared if DC had split GA GL into two series: one for All-American, and one for GL. A third series for Comic Cavalcade and miscellaneous stories would be fine, but I'd prefer to see Comic Cavalcade reprinted as an anthology.

I think Marty's list of problem characters is pretty much correct (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Green Arrow, the Marvels), but I'd add Blackhawk. I don't think that we will ever see a complete reprinting of these characters, even if you ignore the modern material.

I think that Superman and Batman require skipping. However, I hate using alternate names. For GA Batman, I would have had a Detective Archives and a Batman Archives. I would call the 60s series Batman: The New Look Archives. I'm not familiar enough with the 60s Superman to have an opinion yet, but I don't like Superman: The Man of Steel. I have mixed feelings on Aquaman.

GA GL and Flash are on the edge in my opinion. We may live to see this series completed, but I'm not betting on it. I have seen a very few examples of the later stories. I think they are far superior. I'm not going to try to force my opinion on anyone, but I'll be shocked if anyone compares the two periods and doesn't come to the same conclusion that James and I have. I don't think that DC is picking and choosing if it jumps ahead to Vol 13 or whatever, provided that they have mapped it out correctly. If they call it Good GL Vol 1, then they are picking and choosing.

I also don't think that jumping ahead in this instance would be an example of DC taking a short term gain. I believe that James suggested in another thread that a positive response to vol 13 might generate demand for 2-12.

I hope that one day we will see a complete GA Flash and GL. I would like to see them reprinted and published in order. However, I would rather see them jump ahead and fill in the gaps rather than not complete the series.
If we can't get a complete set, I'd rather have 1, 2, 13, and 14 instead of 1, 2, 3, 4.

By the way, Kitchen Sink started with the post-war Spirit. They then went back and barely started what they called "The Origin Years." In my opinion, the Spirit Archives is a success primarily due to Kitchen Sink's series.

posted November 07, 2002 12:00 AM            

My point was that IF GAGL wasn't going to continue due to poor sales, then YES, please jump ahead. IMO, some GAGL is better than no GAGL.

Would I rather they do the series in order? Of course. But if that isn't gonna happen, then I'll gladly take a jump forward to #13.

posted November 07, 2002 12:09 AM               

Greg has not updated his site in over 2 years. I don't know what is going on. I got no response to an email a couple months ago. In the past he had been responsive, but I had stuff he needed.

Did anyone else pre-order Complete Kirby V. 4? Has anyone received their copy? I have been told it is out.

posted November 07, 2002 12:50 AM               

quote:

---

CD-Rom is certainly one option to explore and our Business Development folk have dabbled with it here and there. With luck, something might happen over the next few years. And then all you Red Bee fans can have the complete set.[/B]

---

posted November 07, 2002 06:50 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Steven Utley:
I have visited what I take to be Pure Imagination's little portion of cyberspace, and while there is much there to admire and covet, including some Frank Frazetta stuff, I can't get a line on THE FRANK FRAZETTA ARCHIVES. Where should I be looking?

---

Tales of Wonder has it available on this page:
http://www.talesofwonder.com/

Click on the cover for info. Another web site has a softcover version also available for less $, but doesn't have any solicitation text:
http://store.longbox.com/store/cataissue.asp?char=C

posted November 07, 2002 11:35 AM            

Is there anybody here who by some unimaginably unfortunate circumstance has never seen any of Frazetta's comic-book work? If so, stop what you're doing and go check it out in PULP FICTION LIBRARY: MYSTERY IN SPACE and THE GREATEST 1950s STORIES EVER TOLD. Now.

***

Back? Good! Swell stuff, huh? Frazetta -- and Roy Krenkel, too -- first impigned on my senses in the early 1960s, when Ace Books began reissuing Edgar Rice Burroughs' novels. I still have them. Ah, THUVIA, MAID OF MARS (it was Krenkel's cover that first compelled me to spend my lunch money on a Burroughs novel) and THE MONSTER MEN, ah, TANAR OF PELLUCIDAR and TARZAN AT THE EARTH'S CORE. They were truly attractive little packages, and contained a neato extra treat, too: a pen 'n' ink drawing on the title page.

I am, incidentally, Mahlon Blaine's only fan among ERB aficionados, who (this is not too strong a word) hated Blaine's illustrations in the Canaveral Press editions of THE MOON MEN (originally entitled THE MOON MAID), THE MONSTER MEN, A FIGHTING MAN OF MARS, THE LAND THAT TIME FORGOT, and the first three Pellucidar novels. Russ Cochran hated them so much, in fact, that he included only a single example, contemptuously captioned, in his otherwise comprehensive multi-volume album of ERB illustrators that now goes for upty-scadillion dollars on eBay. Evidently, Blaine's failing, his crime, his sin, was that his drawing style in no way resembled J. Allen St. John's or Frazetta's or Krenkel's or, well, anybody's. Philistines! In my eyes, Blaine work is to Frazetta, Krenkel, and St. John's what Harry G. Peter of whose WONDER WOMAN Blaine's style is most reminiscent) or Basil Wolverton is to, oh, Jack Kirby, Lou Fine, or Will Eisner -- so utterly different as to be apples to oranges. Comparisons are otiose. I like the work of each and all of the artists above. As Gabriel Garcia Marques writes in his novel, LOVE IN THE TIME OF CHOLERA, "my heart has more rooms than a whorehouse."

posted November 07, 2002 01:43 PM               

The Complete Jack Kirby was released through Diamond a couple of weeks ago. I have my copy with me as I type. I didn't pre-order the book, just waited for the normal distribution channels. Based on what you're implying, I'm glad I did.

I thought not pre-ordering might prevent Theakston from releasing the book, but I gambled. If you pre-ordered, were you required to pre-pay as well?

posted November 07, 2002 04:58 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Steven Utley:
... a book to be called SILURIAN TALES which I expect every mother's son of you to rush right out and buy so's I can be, at long goddamn last, rich and famous.

---

posted November 07, 2002 10:28 PM               

Hmmm.

I was familiar with Mahlon Blaine's utterly incredible illustrations for late 20's editions of the decadent fantasies "Vathek' and Hanns Heinz Ewers' "Sorceror's Apprentice" and "Alraune." It was fairly recent that I learned that he had, IMO "sunk", to doing Burroughs' books. I was very pleased to find any more examples of his art, but it did seem
that his skill has deteriorated somewhat in the intervening decades. I have to admit that when I found the books, I was snickering to myself "I bet THIS isn't what the Burroughs fans were expecting!"

The couple of times that I have met Russ Cochran, he did seem quite opinionated. I was unaware of his aversion to Blaine.

posted November 08, 2002 03:10 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Steve Topper:
TTOMLINS99,

Where do you go shop in the Dayton area? The shop I frequent in Fairborn (the Bookery Fantasy) has a huge TPB stock and would survive were the market to shift from singles to collections.

The key, in my opinion, is having new material released regularly enough to support any outlets. An example to consider, the Crossgen Compendia. Those are released every month and are essentially anthologies of their monthlies -- TPBs. I don't buy eveery Crossgen monthly, but I do pick up both Forge and Edge. My retailer gets a guaranteed $25/month from those two TPB every month, not to mention any other purchases I happen to make -- like a $50 (pre-discount) Archive.

As Rod Staeger suggests the existing comics retailer paradigm will shift, but an effective business can make that shift regardless of his location (New York or Dayton, Ohio.)

Thanks
Steve

---

Funnie Farm Bookstore in Vandalia.

posted November 10, 2002 09:25 PM               

1. What does it mean we you say there will be two Challengers of the Unknown volumes?

posted November 11, 2002 10:07 AM               

We haven't had a lot of discussion regarding skipping ahead, actually omitting volumes. While we'd all like to rush ahead to the Alex Toth GL or Carmine Infantino Flash, our goal is to get there in chronological order. Should sales be poor enough to stop a line, then so be it. On the other hand, skipping the sci-fi era of Batman was certainly on our minds when we chose to launch the Dynamic Duo Archives. Note, we haven't stopped the GA run, with another volume due in 2003.

The Frazetta collection remains under discussion and announcements will be made when something is finalized. This is Dale's baby so I'm on the sidelines rooting.

There was an interesting comment about the 1970s material shold be archived. That stuff is 30 years old already, and the Legion volumes are already there with JLA not too far behind. How old must something be to be "Archiveable"?

Challengers, as noted elsewhere, will be two slimmer volumes intended to collect all the Kirby material. Should sales and interest warrant it, we can revisit collecting the Bob Brown and co. run later.

The Batman - Neal Adams run is not slipcased with only Vol. One due out in 2003.

Back to your debates.

posted November 11, 2002 12:04 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bob Greenberger:
...We haven't had a lot of discussion regarding skipping ahead, actually omitting volumes. While we'd all like to rush ahead to the Alex Toth GL or Carmine Infantino Flash, our goal is to get there in chronological order. Should sales be poor enough to stop a line, then so be it....

---

posted November 11, 2002 12:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by James Friel:

Just to clarify, is what you're saying here that if sales on the GA Flash and GL are poor enough to warrant cancelling the series, the better material from the later period will simply have to go uncollected?

---

YES, BOB, Please clarify that question.

As you know, there are fans of both GA characters here who just would like to know if these series will continue in some form, or if they teetering on the edge of Archive extinction based on past sales figures?

Thanks.

posted November 11, 2002 01:38 PM               

Why hasn't anyone else noticed this? I take this to mean we will get another volume of GA Falsh this year? GA Green Lantern would be nice also.

There was an interesting comment about the 1970s material shold be archived. That stuff is 30 years old already, and the Legion volumes are already there with JLA not too far behind. How old must something be to be "Archiveable"?

As far as I'm concerned material from the 1970's amd 1980's should be Archived as soon as possible. I'm not a fan most of the Silver Age stuff. I'm looking forward to more Archives from the 1970's amd 80's (i.e. NTT #2).

Challengers, as noted elsewhere, will be two slimmer volumes intended to collect all the Kirby material. Should sales and interest warrant it, we can revisit collecting the Bob Brown and co. run later.

I DO NOT like this! After seeing how Marvel has destroyed it's Masterwork line I do not want to see this happen to the Archive line! Expirementing with the format will do that faster then anything.

The Batman - Neal Adams run is not slipcased with only Vol. One due out in 2003.

This is too bad. I really liked the DC Slipcases and bought everyone except for Absolute Authority.

posted November 11, 2002 01:45 PM            

I also take good news in the mention of avoiding the sci-fi Batman. Although I want to read this stuff, I'd rather get it once the GA reprints get that far, however long that may be. There's been some talk about starting umpteen different Batman or Superman lines now that "Dynamic Duo" has broken the wall (the '50s, the '70s, etc.) and I hope that doesn't happen. I think the one jump to the SA as represented by "Dynamic Duo" was justifiable, and probably even a good idea, but I'd hate to see the idea overused.

I'm curious to hear more about the Batman/Adams book. If it's not slipcased, it sounds like a different animal -- not like the GA/GL or Deadman collections, but not an Archive, either. I'm on the fence with this one as I own reprints of most Adams material already. I bought Deadman but didn't buy GA/GL yet, largely because I thought Deadman had more extras. That'll probably be my deciding factor for the new volume, too. If it's thoroughly complete, as India Ink recently described in another thread, I'd be much more likely to pick it up.

It's also very nice to hear the later Challengers series might still be considered for Archiving. I must say, though, I dislike the slimmer/cheaper format the more I think about it. Like DStepp said elsewhere, if anything I'd prefer to see a thicker, more expensive format. Our constant complaint with the Archives is how long it takes to get to everything. Thinner volumes won't alleviate that problem. I appreciate that the impact is diluted with Challs since we're apparently getting two volumes in one month, but I'd like to see the Archive line remain consistent in quality and I tend to hope this experiment won't be repeated. But I'd LOVE to see the experiment expanded to the issuance of two regular sized volumes in one month, particularly of the same character, as with the Challengers!

posted November 11, 2002 04:21 PM            

I'm ecstatic about the Neal Adams Batman collection. Also, I think it's fine if they stretch it out over three volumes as opposed to one slipcase. It makes it easier to savor the individual books (I still haven't gotten through the Deadman slipcase).

I'm likewise enthused about the Challengers two-volume archives. I understand the argument that it will cost more per page this way, but I like the idea of Kirby-Challs-done-in-two. And if the experiment draws more readers to the archive line, all the better.

posted November 11, 2002 05:22 PM            

How much of a factor is whether a creator is still living in deciding what gets archived?

Take Sheldon Moldoff as an example. A GA Hawkman Archives would be money in his pocket, and at his age he could probably use the dough. I'll bet Jim Mooney was happy to get a check for Supergirl Volume 1, and Mart Nodell gets paid for GA Green Lantern. On the other hand, who gets paid for a Jack Kirby collection? Does DC bother to compensate his heirs, and at what point would they get cut off (in other words, how many generations deep does it go)?