posted January 22, 2003 06:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by dylanfan:
Now which survey could he possibly be referring to here?

I remember where there was lots of controversy about the utility of the survey. In fact, I recall a couple people urging others not to take it. Well, I think we can put all that silliness to rest.

I am glad to see Bob has voiced his observance of the survey results.

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posted January 22, 2003 06:50 PM            

I've bought all of the Legion archives. Part of the reason was that they included all of the legion stories. If #12 is going to skip two issues, I may decide to stop with #11. Besides, I remember the Karate Kid series to be pretty lame (and wasn't #1 continued?).

Don't get me wrong - I love the archives, especially the Legion archives. This is the reason I'm hoping the solicitation was a misprint.

posted January 22, 2003 06:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DStepp:
Might I make a proposal regarding Golden Age Flash Vol 2?

1) Please skip the All-Flash and Comic Cavalcade material. Comic Cavalcade is already compromised because Wonder Woman and Golden Age Green Lantern are not included. There are no "essential to modern continity" stories in All-Flash til about #12, editions away. Push come to shove, I would prefer you re-create that one anyone as it is a full-issue story (It's the origin of the Thinker) as a replica edition.

2) If you follow #1, and pad the book a little, you can cover Flash Comics #18-36. #35 is the first appearance of the Shade (or maybe #33, amazing that I used to remember all this) and #36 is definetly the first appearance of the Rag Doll. The Rag Doll story, in addition to be "relevant" is also a very good story. Admittedly, this will push you to ~230 of content not included covers and editorial material. Hence #3.

3) Raise the price to $60. I appreciate that you are experimenting with smaller volumes for a lower price but please try the upper end. I am willing to pay a premium to get this material out there. If they are 20% away from being in the range, boost the price by 20% and drive it home. I imagine I am not alone in this, esp if you throw in just a little extra material.

On other subjects:

I love that Joker series. It was zany.

It's important to keep in mind that most of us were introduced to collections like this by reprint projects in the 70's. An biannual "faux annual" or replica edition would be groovy

D.

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Although I am not particularly fond of this idea, I'm really glad that it was posted. I think its important to discuss our options on this issue and welcome any ideas.

I really wish you had mentioned this before GL was published. Actually I wish I had mentioned it as well, because I always assumed that the stories in All-American/Green Lantern and Flash Comics/All-Flash would be separated for exactly the reason you suggest.

However, I think it would be a mistake to have one pattern for GL and another for Flash.

Also, I think an All-Flash Archive creates a naming problem. I would be happier with this problem if it didn't create the inconsistency that I mentioned above.

posted January 22, 2003 07:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Coleo:
In one of the stories today about Marvel's plan to release TPBs of its new Tsunami books immediately after they finish their first arcs, Bill Jemas refers to the theory about delaying publication of trades until well after the floppies have come out, and says that it's never been proven to him that it's a smart way to go. I can only assume that he's referring to Bob.

While I can see the benefits to the direct market of holding off awhile on trade compliations, Marvel's stated purpose of doing these new books primarily for the bookstore market also makes a kind of sense, given that they're going after a market segment (teenagers, specifically girls) that is comfortable buying magna in bookstores, and will probably never frequent comic shops to buy $3 32-page floppies no matter what the publishers or stores do. On the other hand, by using this model instead of simply releasing OGNs, Marvel is essentially admitting that it's counting on old-school, monthly readers willing to pay at least $2.25 every month to foot the bill for making "Namor" TPBs affordable to teenagers at the mall. Given the high price of monthlies, this could easily breed resentment amongst the traditonal readers Marvel needs in order to keep those TPBs reasonably-priced. Jemas says that Marvel sees rapidly-released TPBs as feeders for the next story arc of the monthly, but I don't understand that. Why wouldn't TPB readers just wait for the next trade? I don't see how quick, cheap collections would cause an influx of new readers to shops where they've never been welcome to buy relatively more expensive, shorter, less durable comics.

Thoughts, Bob or anyone else?

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I completely agree with you and James' response.

posted January 22, 2003 07:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Steven Utley:
This isn't a question or a request, just some musing on one of my favorite topics, comics anthologies.

If it is true that anthologies are poor sellers and equally true that Superman and Batman are S.R.O. attractions, it makes sense (does it not?) that anthologies prominently featuring The Man of Steel and The Caped Crusader should at least break even and, quite conceivably, then some. Anthologies called, let us say, THE BEST OF ACTION COMICS, THE BEST OF DETECTIVE COMICS, and (if this title isn't too much of a muchness) THE BEST OF WORLD'S FINEST COMICS could serve up generous portions of prime Superman and Batman material published between 1938 and the present day, and still have room for a host of other, admittedly lesser, but nevertheless interesting characters. Flip through 30 or so years' worth of ACTION, DETECTIVE, and WORLD'S FINEST, and whom do we see? (Besides Superman and Batman.) Air Wave, Aquaman, The Black Pirate, Boy Commandos, Congo Bill/Congorilla, The Crimson Avenger, The Green Arrow, Johnny Thunder, The King, King Faraday, Manhunter From Mars, Pow Wow Smith, Robotman, Roy Raymond, The Sandman, Slam Bradley, The Star Spangled Kid, T.N.T. with Dan the Dyna-Mite, Tomahawk, Tommy Tomorrow, The Vigilante, The Wyoming Kid, and Zatara the Master Magician -- among others -- a host of characters who are mostly languishing in limbo, a mountain of material by Ramona Fradon, Simon and Kirby, Sheldon Moldoff, Jimmy Thompson, Mort Meskin, and other luminaries, currently going to waste. What a pity.

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posted January 22, 2003 07:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Steve Overton:
Also, can someone elaborate on the Adam Strange TPB ? When is this out, & what is it about ?
Thanks[/B]

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I don't find out what's been solicited until Westfield Comics sends me a catalog at the beginning of the month. However, based on comments here it appears that in April there will be a collection of the three-issue Prestige Format series by Richard Bruning (I think) and the Kubert Brothers.

I don't think that I'm giving anything away here. If so, then I apologize.

If you are a long-time Adam Strange fan, you will probably not be happy with some aspects of this series. I don't think long-time fans were as outraged as they were about the Hefler/Sienkiewicz (and Chaykin) Shadow or the Chaykin Blackhawk, but its definitely a different take.

However, in my opinion, the writing and art were excellent. This is actually one of my favorite mini-series despite the fact that I am not happy with some of the aspects of the series. I re-read it last year and had the same reaction. This is similar to my reaction to Batman: Year One. I think this is the best Batman story ever, but I'm not particularly thrilled with Frank Miller's take on Catwoman.

I usually don't buy trades of stories that I already own. I think The Golden Age was the last one I did buy. Depending on how much my February total is, I might buy this one.

Hope that helps.

posted January 22, 2003 07:33 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by greene:
Separating GA "Flash" and "All-Flash" perhaps makes sense, if one's goal is to get to the late-40s material more quickly. But, frankly I'm not too keen on the idea, since I'm actually a bit more interested in the longer, book-length stories found in "All-Flash." I'd hate to see those pushed aside, and potentially never be archived.

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posted January 22, 2003 07:39 PM            

quote:

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Dave Rose:
I just read the solicitations for April and noticed the Legion Archives (#12) is going to cover 213-223 and Karate Kid 1. Is this a misprint? Volume 11 ended with 210, so shouldn't #12 begin with #211?

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You're mistaken, Dave. Legion #11 included issues #203-212. No issues were skipped.

posted January 22, 2003 07:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by gothcityfan:
I stumbled across this board many wks ago and hoped to get thru all of it

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Good luck. I've had trouble getting through what's been posted on this thread alone since yesterday. There are a couple of long threads that I really want to read, but haven't had the time.

posted January 22, 2003 09:25 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Steve Overton:
Is this now the longest running thread ever ?

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In this forum? Possibly.

On the entire DCMB? Not even close. There has been a continuing thread on the Batman boards that is now in its sixth incarnation, because it keeps getting shut down around 1000 posts. There was one thread on the YJ board that was well over 1000 posts.

But once this thread nears 1000, then we have to worry about Rob K. shutting it down.

Also, I'd like to bring attention back to my earlier question of Christmas TPBs. (I realize there were a lot of questions in that last set, so it's understandable why it was missed/skipped. Please don't feel I'm overeager to get it answered. I just realize how busy Mr. G. and this board is.)

quote:

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Mr. Greenberger, any chance for a second Christmas TPB? I'm sure there are still stories from the other DCU Christmas specials from the late 90s, in addition to a few from the 80s (like that Supergirl one that every one seems to love so much.)

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posted January 22, 2003 10:30 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Bob Greenberger:

Supergirl's sales have certainly been fine of late, but too little too late and the book really is done.

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Well, I really had little hope for the title but it will come back eventually (they all do). But Bob, what are the chances for a TBP of the final Supergirl arc with Kara (#75-80) when it's all done?

posted January 22, 2003 10:35 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by gothcityfan:
What is up with a hush hc being released right now? It is the most shameless money grabbing ploy ive seen, and it disgusts me. Why isn't this being released in tpb form, if the purpose is to get readers who missed the initial run. Im not complaining for any reason other than the idea, since as a rule, i dont buy hc reprints, and i already collect hush. Its the idea that annoys me.

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posted January 22, 2003 11:34 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by gothcityfan:
I stumbled across this board many wks ago and hoped to get trhu all of it before commenting on tpb issues (since im a huge tpb fan). Still havent had the time, but felt the need to post due to something whcih really bothers me.

What is up with a hush hc being released right now? It is the most shameless money grabbing ploy ive seen, and it disgusts me. Why isn't this being released in tpb form, if the purpose is to get readers who missed the initial run. Im not complaining for any reason other than the idea, since as a rule, i dont buy hc reprints, and i already collect hush. Its the idea that annoys me.

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It's for people like me who prefer collected editions, esp hardcovers. The TBP will come out a little later. What's so shameful about publishing a nice book? Is it because you'll have to wait for the trade? I see the quick publication of the collected edition as a step in the right direction.

posted January 23, 2003 12:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by vze2:
Although I am not particularly fond of this idea, I'm really glad that it was posted. I think its important to discuss our options on this issue and welcome any ideas.

I really wish you had mentioned this before GL was published. Actually I wish I had mentioned it as well, because I always assumed that the stories in All-American/Green Lantern and Flash Comics/All-Flash would be separated for exactly the reason you suggest.

However, I think it would be a mistake to have one pattern for GL and another for Flash.

Also, I think an All-Flash Archive creates a naming problem. I would be happier with this problem if it didn't create the inconsistency that I mentioned above.

I'm not completely against this idea, but it's definitely not my favorite.

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I think the big issue with GA Green Lantern & GA Flash that DStepp is getting at is the same thing I've been trying to say. Here's the deal. No one necessarily wants an Archive to switch in midstream (i.e. including or excluding different runs like All-Flash) when other Archives (like GA GL #2) have already set a certain standard.

Nor is anyone chomping at the bit to pay an extra $10 or more to get an Archive.

HOWEVER:

IF an Archive line like GA Flash is facing a huge uphill climb, like waiting 5 or more years inbetween editions, cough cough, then we are willing to try new things to get that Archive moving at a faster rate.

Let me put it this way. IF my choice is to either wait 5 or 6 years inbetween editions of GA GL or Flash and have them stay the course the way they are - OR - have DC try what Dave proposes by going exclusively with a certain line like Flash Comics and/or increasing the price AND consequently then getting those series every couple of years instead of waiting 5 or 6 years ...

Then I'll take the 2nd choice, without even hesitating. I want this stuff now! Not in 20, 30 or more years. If any of Dave's suggestions will speed up the rate at which we get GA Green Lantern or GA Flash Archives, then I'm 100% for it. There's nothing that would cause me to rather wait 6 years inbetween editions vs. getting them every other year or at least every third year.

I hope that makes sense. Bottom line is I want this stuff to get going. Do I want all the material? Of course! But the way I see it at present, some is better than none. And that's my concern and I think it's Dave's concern as well.

posted January 23, 2003 01:25 AM               

1.Sugar and Spike
2. Bat Lash
3. Metal Men
4. Hawk and Dove (Ditko/Kane)
5. Creeper (Ditko/Kane)
6. Capt. Action
7. Teen Titans (lst series)
8. Martian Manhunter (Detective and House of Mystery)
9. Bat Lash...opps I already mentioned that one!

posted January 23, 2003 07:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by FOG:
I think the big issue with GA Green Lantern & GA Flash that DStepp is getting at is the same thing I've been trying to say.

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On the big issue, all three of us agree. I've made the same point in several, if not many, posts.

quote:

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IF my choice is to either wait 5 or 6 years inbetween editions of GA GL or Flash and have them stay the course the way they are - OR - have DC try what Dave proposes by going exclusively with a certain line like Flash Comics and/or increasing the price AND consequently then getting those series every couple of years instead of waiting 5 or 6 years ...

Then I'll take the 2nd choice, without even hesitating. I want this stuff now! Not in 20, 30 or more years. If any of Dave's suggestions will speed up the rate at which we get GA Green Lantern or GA Flash Archives, then I'm 100% for it. There's nothing that would cause me to rather wait 6 years inbetween editions vs. getting them every other year or at least every third year.

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As I said, I'm not completely against the idea for the same reasons that you and he suggest.

I disagree on two points.

1. This one is very minor. I don't need the later material now (although I would like to see some examples now in some sort of reprint, like a lost annual, Greatest Green Lantern Stories, something). If the series is moving at a reasonable pace, I don't mind. Every 5 or 6 years is not a reasonable pace. Assuming every 5 years beginning with volume 2 of Flash in 2004, then we have volumes in 2009, 2014, 2019, 2024, 2029, 2034, 2039, and 2044. I can't find the map right now, but I think its 10 volumes with "good" stuff in the last 2 or 3. If I remember correctly, that means 2034 before we see this material. However, it seems likely that the pace will slow in the middle.

2. Given the options you mention, I go with 2 as well. However, there are other options.

Before we do any of the proposed solutions, I would like to see Flash 2 (including All-Flash 1) and Comic Cavalcade 1.

After that, my first choice is to jump to volume 9 (or whatever). This technique has been used successfully by Fantagraphics on Prince Valiant, a series that has much more even quality than Flash of Green Lantern. The existence of volume 9 implies an intention to go back and fill in the gap. This should be viewed as a skip from the extremely low demand material (already proven by sales and the lack of volume 2) to the almost univerally recognized high demand material rather than an arbitrary skip from bad material to good.

My second choice would be to create a new series focusing on this material. While I prefer this solution to nothing, I don't like this solution because I view the complete run as one series with varying quality. This is very different from the Dynamic Duo volume which is an intention New Look as demonstrated by the phrase New Look.

posted January 23, 2003 08:21 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by vze2:
I really think all three of us, as well as a few others I can name, are on the same side.

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I certainly agree with you. I didn't mean to sound like we were at odds. I know you especially agree with me about this material getting out, and frankly it's good to have some other voices here in that regard.

You're solutions are fine as well (skipping ahead if necessary). To be honest, I'll take ANY solution if it will speed things up. That's my point. Of course I'd like things to stay the course and us get all the material with these two particular characters. But if push comes to shove, DC, do what you must to speed things up.

I would like to see a Comics Cavalcade Archive separate too. But even here, I wouldn't necessarily mind splitting the three main characters into there own line with CC. It wouldn't be my first choice in how to approach a CC Archive, but I wouldn't cry over it either.