posted February 04, 2003 06:30 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Scippio:
Marvel is doing something similar. In their long running series they picked a point and started from there and called it vol 1 and each successive volume collects the next set of issues, not skipping over any.

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posted February 04, 2003 06:33 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Ruiner:
Bob,

You said after Critical Condition DC'll be doing President Lex. How about Emperor Joker/Superman:Arkham? And what issues will Pres. Lex collect exactly?

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posted February 04, 2003 07:22 PM               

Questions for Bob Greenberger 2

(I know, it's original)

posted February 04, 2003 07:31 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Scippio:
Does anybody think that I am off base here?

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For the most part, I completely agree with you. However, I think you are missing an important piece.

Not everything is collected. So let's say that a comic comes out that you really want. Will it be collected or not? Can you predict with certainty? I can't.

Now here's the problem. I buy very few of the best-selling comics and a reasonbly large number of lesser-selling titles. Some of these lesser comics are critically-acclaimed and get collections, but others are not.

Let's take Doom Patrol as an example because I like it. My latest order form is soliciting for issue 19. So far, we have no trade (correct me if I'm wrong and I'll find another example).

Should I have bought 1-18 (which I did) and buy 19 (which I will) or should I have waited for the trade?

Let's say that I decided to wait. So far, not trade. Also, the monthly has one less sale. If many people are making the same decision, Doom Patrol is cancelled. Maybe before it gets to 19. No trade. No comic. Everyone loses. At this point, I try to get the back issues, but I can't because demand from people like me is greater than the supply.

So if I really want Doom Patrol, and I do, I have to buy the monthly.

I don't mind if a trade eventually appears. I don't care if it's less expensive than it should be because I'm subsidizing it. I don't care if it has great bonus features that I'm missing.

However, I do care if it is released quickly because it makes my previous decision seem stupid. Every time this happens, I am more likely to wait for the trade. Every time that happens, I run the risk of losing a comic that I love.

posted February 04, 2003 07:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike Falcon:
Well I am retiring this thread.

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You can't retire a thread while I'm writing my post.

If anyone want to continue the discussion about when to collect, please start a new thread.

posted February 04, 2003 10:17 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by samdhi:
Okay, I'll bite. I'd love to see a collection of "Terror" (# 137-141), myself. It's a direct sequel to "Prey," which has already been collected (but is now, I think, out of print). It offers Batman, Catwoman, Hugo Strange, [b]and the Scarecrow in a wonderfully macabre story from a classic creative team (Doug Moench & Paul Gulacy).

B]

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I'd really like to see this. Prey was one of my favorite stories. Not sure how I missed "Terror"

Joe

posted February 04, 2003 10:30 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Bob Greenberger:

Yeah, we've only pitched one western archive and it was Jonah Hex. No one seems to ready to touch the 1970s yet so we'll see.

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We're ready for the 1970's, especially Jonah Hex! Bring 'em on!!!!!

posted February 04, 2003 11:20 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by bluedevil2002:
Sadly, they skipped over the one Daredevil arc that I really wanted to get in TPB. The Bob Gale arc from #20-25/400-405. Volumes 1-3 collect #1-19, and then volume 4 starts Bendis' run. Would it have been so difficult to just put one more DD TPB out?

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That run is dramatically different from the rest of those TPBs. I liked it but I understand why Marvel left it out.

posted February 04, 2003 11:52 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by vze2:
For the most part, I completely agree with you. However, I think you are missing an important piece.

Not everything is collected. So let's say that a comic comes out that you really want. Will it be collected or not? Can you predict with certainty? I can't.

Now here's the problem. I buy very few of the best-selling comics and a reasonbly large number of lesser-selling titles. Some of these lesser comics are critically-acclaimed and get collections, but others are not.

Let's take Doom Patrol as an example because I like it. My latest order form is soliciting for issue 19. So far, we have no trade (correct me if I'm wrong and I'll find another example).

Should I have bought 1-18 (which I did) and buy 19 (which I will) or should I have waited for the trade?

Let's say that I decided to wait. So far, not trade. Also, the monthly has one less sale. If many people are making the same decision, Doom Patrol is cancelled. Maybe before it gets to 19. No trade. No comic. Everyone loses. At this point, I try to get the back issues, but I can't because demand from people like me is greater than the supply.

So if I really want Doom Patrol, and I do, I have to buy the monthly.

I don't mind if a trade eventually appears. I don't care if it's less expensive than it should be because I'm subsidizing it. I don't care if it has great bonus features that I'm missing.

However, I do care if it is released quickly because it makes my previous decision seem stupid. Every time this happens, I am more likely to wait for the trade. Every time that happens, I run the risk of losing a comic that I love.

I'd also like to echo James' point about the current creative team not mattering. If a casual fan just saw the latest Batman movie and walks into a bookstore, or even a comic shop, that fan won't know who the current team is and won't care

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I agree with vze about not releasing trades so soon after individual issues. No exceptions would be my policy. Thats one of numerous reason the hush hc annoyed me so greatly. Like vze said, i could have not gotten the individual issues, and just got the hc so soon.

However, i agree wholeheardely with scippio that there should be a collection of all the works of something like batman.

Bob's response for why there isn't was very dangerous and troubling. See my next post.

posted February 05, 2003 01:00 AM               

[Quote}

Our Batman trades seem to work best with complete stories so the last few years there have been big event storylines and then some breather stories and it's those breather stories that make for a tougher collection. [/QUOTE]

This quote is very troublesome to me. Like i said earlier, no non-crossover collection either means not enough profitability or not enough quality stories deserving reprint.

I mentioned earlier, that if dc feels these stories are not of a high enough quality to merit reprint, thats a whole 'nother problem in itself. Bob's above comment basically (inadvertantly?) says non crossover books are not quality. I dont think bob meant it to be interpreted so, but thats how i see it and such an idea is a slap in the face ppl who read "between" the crossovers.

"Big event storylines" and then some "breather" stories? That's basically like saying, what happens in the major crossover's matter. Everything else is inconsequential and only for the hardcore fanboy's who will read any bat story, character evolution or not.

First of all, if dc truly believes this, it cant help but filter down to the fans/readers, and thats a very dangerous thing. I, too once felt like all that mattered was the crossovers, and to a certain extent i think this was once true. I read Batman from Knightfall to cataclysm, and really, if you read only the crossovers, you missed very little, development-wise. That's why at one point i decided to end my monthly reading and just pick up the trades.

This obviously isnt a good thing. Why would dc want ppl to percieve crossovers as all that matter, and get them to ignore the inconsequential monthly fare? I think this notion is furthered by the lack of tpb's of regular fare, and i personally do not think something not in a crossover is close to inconsequential.

While i once did think so, when following only the tpb's, I eventually realized, that this method of reading greatly reduced my enjoyment of the stories, as many details are left out.

Lets go into an example of someone who follows only the tpb's over the last 5 yrs vs a regular reader (and ive been on both sides). Firstly, when reading nml you'd ask, how the heck did we get here (thanks to no road to nml trade), wheres batman, why did jim and oracle stay, wheres the bat family, since when does montoya know two-face, what the heck is going on. Later you would ask (remmeber, your only info is the tpb's) who's harley quinn, where did she come from, and when did joker do anything in nml before endgame?

After nml you would ask how did jim react to his wife's murder (tec #742, which i can never figure why it wasnt included in the evolution tpb)? Whatever happened to poison ivy in the park, whetever happened to bullock after he killed rich jordan, whatever happened to jim after he was shot, where did sasha bordeaux come from, how did bat's alienate everyone, when was nigthwing adopted, when did vesper return, how is sasha/bats relationship, how can bats-sasha relationship make sense? Reading murderer part one (this is a fictional example, not true), i couldnt understand for the life of me the batman/sasha working relationship. That is so unlike batman. (b/c the tpb reader wouldnt see the slow build) When did bruce buy a gun, when did he write the journal, when did lucius have a stroke? How the heck is batman acting in issue #600, again very unrealistic portrayal of his personality (again, no slow build portrayed in bats losing his mind/identity in the brian k vaughan/ ed brubaker stories on matches malone and the moxons).

Then, after the tpb's are complete, you'd be asking, what made bats realize hes bruce wayne and batman (batman#604, not collected), wahteevr happened to sasha (if i had never returned to monthly reading, this issue not being resolved in tpb would have ****** me off so greatly i prob would have been turned off from comics again), did cassie ever confront her father, what happened to cain, did bats make up with robin?

Now, it's said that such collections would be hard to organize. Huh? Without thinking hard, put gk #1-11 in one tpb (story of batman's journal, a major supporting character character in m/f, as well as hugo strange arc, which led to sasha and some otehr issues in m/f i still dont fully understand as i didnt get the whole arc). 14-21 in another (bats adopting dick, a major poijt in first part of m/f).

Then theres tec 742-752 in one volume. and 2001 tecs in another (sasha/bats development)

A brubaker moxons trade and a vaughn trade, a finally a trade reprinting tec/gk/bat stories from the last 3 monthes leading into m/f.

posted February 05, 2003 01:21 AM               

Devin Grayson spent 2000 showing the importance of the bat family, and introing the journal, while setting the stage for sasha.

2001 continued the trend, focused on dick's adoption, the straining relationship with tim (#15), and bats eventual loneliness due to alienating everyone (#22). 2001 ended with the gun being bought so bats can confront his fear, and lucius having a stroke

Greg Rucka in 2000 just had great stories, tying up some issues from nml and tower of babel (mostly reprinted already, except posion ivy, and jim gordon issues), as well as introing sasha (again, not collected)

Rucka 2001 dealt with the growing sasha/bat relationship, the return of vesper, and the sasha/vesper jealousy.

Hama 2000 was inconsequential. Brian K Vaughn and Ed Brubaker 2000-01 dealt with the issues of bats losing his identity (culminating with him giving up the bruce wayne persona at the culmination of murderer). Brian dealt with it through a matches malone story where bats believes he matches, and forgets who he really is. Ed dealls with it thru the moxons story, which brings back many memories to bruce which he realizes he supressed as a child. How much does he truly know of himself?

posted February 05, 2003 01:34 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by James Friel:
I think you're right.
In particular, I think that especially if it really is true that most buyers either get the single issues or the traeds but not both, it's silly for DC to give any weight whatever to whether a particular creative team is at present (and for maybe the next 10 minutes, in current practice) working on the monthly title in considering material for reprinting in trade form. Only the merits of the material in itself (which of course includes saleability), and its relation to the overall continuity, should be considered.
And yes, leaving out issues because they don't fit into a story arc is ridiculous.

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Why can't D C take advantage of the popularity of their best selling character "Batman" and release a series of trades in chronological order, featuring a new volume every 4 months?
They could put in 4 Batman and 4 detective Comics reprints in every volume, and where their was a cross over, they can give a brief synopsis before the issue.
An example of how the trades would look.....

Batman's Diary vol.1
Batman 404
Detective Comics 571
Batman 405
Detective Comics 572
Batman 406
Detective Comics 573
Batman 407
Detective Comics 574

Batman's Diary vol.2
Batman 408
Detective Comics 575
Batman 409
Detective Comics 576
Batman 410
Detective Comics 577
Batman 411
Detective Comics 578

Batman's Diary vol.3
Batman 412
Detective Comics 579
Batman 413
Detective Comics 580
Batman 414
Detective Comics 581
Batman 415
Detective Comics 582

Batman's Diary vol.4 [b/]
Batman 416
Detective Comics 583
Batman 417
Detective Comics 584
Batman 418
Detective Comics 585
Batman 419
Detective Comics 586

[b] Batman's Diary vol.5
Batman 420
Detective Comics 587
Batman 421
Detective Comics 588
Batman 422
Detective Comics 589
Batman 423
Detective Comics 590

Batman's Diary vol.6
Batman 424
Detective Comics 591
Batman 425
Detective Comics 592
Batman 426
Detective Comics 593
Batman 427
Detective Comics 594

posted April 02, 2003 11:00 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by NecessaryImpurity:
Hey everyone! This thread has grown to be dangerously long, in danger of getting "Rob'd". Post any new questions to Questions for Bob Greenberger 2.

THIS MEANS YOU!

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posted April 02, 2003 11:02 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by NecessaryImpurity:
Hey everyone! This thread has grown to be dangerously long, in danger of getting "Rob'd". Post any new questions to Questions for Bob Greenberger 2.

THIS MEANS YOU!

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