posted July 23, 2002 09:19 AM               

Up to now, we have included only Legion appearances that have had impact on the Legion canon so cameos were excluded. Karate Kid's absence was never reflected during this time, only his full-time return to the 30th Century is even noted and then only in passing.

Still, Legionnaires do guest-star in numerous issues and he was a popular enough character to warrant his own title so we're having hearty debates.

Complicating the decision-making is that one of KK's writers is Paul Levitz, currently our beloved president. He feels too close to the material, especially since KK and the Legion are among his earliest writing credits, to be objective. In fact, it was his idea we solicit your opinion. So, what do you think? All of the KK issues? None of the KK issues? Only the KK issues with Legion guest-stars?

posted July 23, 2002 09:53 AM            

And 12 & 13 have a continued story that goes into 14 & 15 (12 & 13 DO have the Legion in action, so I'd want to see them too)...

They were in 1, 4, 6, 10 (And younger versions in 12 & 13)...and these were a little more than cameos (not TONS more, but...1, 4 & 6 were the weakest of the three, but set up the future stories...)

But, it is pretty unlikely we'd EVER get a Karate Kid Archive, so I'd say space them in...(I'd feel cheated to only have SOME of the issues...even though I do have them all, and all Legions from their Action run up in the originals, and a good portion of the Adventures...I ALSO have all the Legion Archives!)

These issues ARE important in that they link the JLA (with the Lord of Time), Green Lantern (thanks to Major Disaster) and Kamandi (heck, there is even a little Kamandi cross-over - and who knows IF DC ever does a Kamandi series of Archives) to the Legion, and while not huge, do provide a link to the rest of the DCU...

(or, in other words, put me down for wanting them all in there!)

posted July 23, 2002 09:54 AM               

First, it's great to hear from you on this board. Direct contact with someone inside DC has always been something this forum lacked. Maybe you could take a quick look at the "SDCC Sat. - DC Collected Editions panel" topic, if you get a chance. You could maybe adress some of the questions here or let people know which questions will be worth asking at San Diego. There's a large list forming, probably too large to work at the con. There's no way one person with a printed out list is going to be able to ask dozens of questions.

As for the Legion/Karate Kid question, I definitely think it should be either all or none. Reprinting only some of them could frustrate the more rabid Legion fan base than reprinting none of them. I, personally, would leave them out, and focus on it being a "Legion of Super-Heroes" archive. As you wrote above, "Karate Kid's absence was never reflected during this time, only his full-time return to the 30th Century is even noted and then only in passing."

posted July 23, 2002 10:38 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by BillNolan:
Mr. Greenberger,

As for the Legion/Karate Kid question, I definitely think it should be either all or none. Reprinting only some of them could frustrate the more rabid Legion fan base than reprinting none of them.
- Bill

---

I totally agree with Bill, all or none.
Only some would make me feel like I am missing something.
I wouldn't mind a KK archive but it is up to DC to decide if such a product could actually sell.

posted July 23, 2002 10:51 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheRogueLegionnaire:
I say included them. I'm a diehard Legion fan, own all the Archives and have never read the series so I definately want it reprinted in its entirety.

---

posted July 23, 2002 11:26 AM               

I see no reason to feature the rest, as they weren't Legion stories, per se, and had no bearing on Legion history.

posted July 23, 2002 11:32 AM               

Now, enough compliments and huzzahs....on to the question. Here's my opinion on the matter- in order of preference how I would like to see ya'll handle this here quandry:

1- stand alone KK Archives
2- complete run of KK interspersed with Legion stories
3- incomplete run of KK interspersed with Legion stories

I am a big fan of inclusion- I want to see everything in print. I have, in the last couple years (and thanks solely to the Archives) become a big Legion fan, so I definitely want to be able to read KK stories. If there are healthy debates within DC's offices, I don't think the saleability of him is in question, except perhaps for his own Archives.

It would be nice to see a KK Archives, perhaps creatively solicited near the same month as the appropriate Legion Archive were to be released.

I can relate to the people who would want none instead of some...but I'm all for including as many pages as is merited for Legion volumes. So bring KK on!

posted July 23, 2002 11:39 AM               

-Steve

posted July 23, 2002 11:54 AM            

I'm also a "completist" with my collection, Legion being one of my favorites. On the other hand, KK is not one of my favorites (the character or the series) -- the stories in question are related (but only tangentally so) to the main LSH storyline. If any of the KK stories must be included, I'd prefer only those which are critical to the LSH storyline. The resulting run would be "cleaner", and we'd get to the really good stuff sooner. (Many of us think our favorite Archives are progressing too slowly.)

Nothing against Mr. Levitz -- I just want what's most appropriate for the Archives. Losing the central focus of the volumes for the sole purpose of collecting everything can only drive away a dedicated audience interested in premium material.

Besides, wouldn't he be happier if he could have separate Archives for LSH and KK, when the market demands one? From the sound of the question, it's not the readers who are demanding it, and only the most anxious of us will respond in the affirmative.

posted July 23, 2002 12:08 PM            

...how many would fit in LSH Archive 12?

If, at the time, we are debating JUST for issue #1...or 1 thru 4?

And, if they DON'T show up in the Legion Archive...WOULD these EVER be Archived?

(And I even forgot about Nemesis Kid in issue 1...so, I'd add that to the "have to" pile, and folks seem to be of the "All or none" idea...)

posted July 23, 2002 12:18 PM               

Legion #12 would pick up with Superboy #213, cover dated Dec. 1975. Five months and four issues of Superboy later is Karate Kid #1, cover dated May 1976.

All these comics seem to have 17 pages of story and a cover, according to the GCD (save for KK #1 which has 18 pages of story and a cover.) Typical Legion Archives continuity has so far given us about 230 pages of comics, so we're looking at Legion Vol. 12 reprinting about 12-13 issues of material.

Looks like the volume would be able to print Superboy #213-221 and KK #1-3. That's the most obvious pattern to me just simply looking at cover dates.

Another thing to look at : after KK #1-15 and the Kamandi #58 crossover, you have 289 pages of Karate Kid. Too much for a single Archives, no? If so, how could they split this up? Looks like a headache....

posted July 23, 2002 12:45 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by James Friel:
I was never a big fan of the KK series, or of the character for that matter.
Still, in the tradition of including all important LSH appearances in the Legion Archives, I'd support including all the issues of KK in which other Legion members appear in significant roles.

---

I agree wholeheartedly with James. I remember most of those issues, and tended to skip the ones that did not include the Legion. I think it would be a good idea to give the modern-day reader a sampling of the KK series, but reprinting the whole of it seems to be overkill. Go with the issues that include the Legion.

posted July 23, 2002 12:49 PM               

Mr. G, thanks for coming up on the forum and asking -- it's nice to be asked. Your post said their was 15 KK issues ... sounds like enough for his own archive, but it might be simpler to just include those issues in the ongoing LSH archives. I don't think someone is going to buy LSH archives 1-11, skip 12 or 13 because it's mostly Karate Kid, and then continue with the next numbered archive.

posted July 23, 2002 12:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Will:
Poor Mr Greenberger -- he comes to this forum for help, and he's gonna leave more confused than before. So far, we have 5 votes for "all", 4 votes for "either all or none but you decide", 2 votes for "none", and 2 for "only some" of the KK stories. Not a consensus one way or another.

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Not sure about that, the 5 votes for all and the 4 votes for all or none are one and the same.
All 9 don't want to see only some of the issues.

posted July 23, 2002 01:00 PM               

Being the Legion completist I am, I have to say "ALL" including Kamandi 58 (KK crossover).

The only times I recall KK's absence is noted during a Legion issues was after the fact. When he shows up at the end of the earthwar S/LSH 244, and then a few issues later we see Iris Jacobs, who was cured of her Diamondeth condition thanks to 30th century science/medicine. That panel would seem out of context if readers didn't see more of the story.

But why don't you hold off on this next archive until after a Legion: Lost TPB is put together?

------------------
Craig C.

posted July 23, 2002 01:13 PM               

I want to see the wedding of Garth & Imra in an Archived format sooner than later...

------------------
Rock a little,

posted July 23, 2002 01:25 PM            

SUPERBOY [first series] # 213 (Dec 1975)

SUPERBOY [first series] # 214 (Jan 1976)

KARATE KID # 1 (Mar-Apr 1976)
Karate Kid battles Nemesis Kid in the 20th century. Mon-El, Brainiac 5, Saturn Girl, and Lightning Lad appear. Note: The letters page of SUPERBOY & THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES #217 states that this series takes place in the Legion's future. Issue #231 ties in with KARATE KID #10. The last appearance in the Legion's magazine of Karate Kid as a full-time member prior to #231 is #224. Also, it is stated in this issue that Mon-El is the current Legion leader. Mon-El was replaced by Wildfire as leader in SUPERBOY [first series] #225. One can therefore conclude that the events of issues #1 to #10 of his own magazine take place between issue #224 and issue #231.

SUPERBOY [first series] # 215 (Mar 1976)

SUPERBOY [first series] # 216 (Apr 1976)

KARATE KID # 2 (May-Jun 1976)
Karate Kid battles Major Disaster. He is also befriended by Iris Jacobs, the woman he met in the previous issue.

DC SUPER STARS # 3 (May 1976)
Reprint cover only.

SUPERBOY [first series] # 217 (Jun 1976)

KARATE KID # 3 (Jul-Aug 1976)
Karate Kid battles the Ravager.

SUPERBOY [first series] # 218 (Jul 1976)

KARATE KID # 4 (Sep-Oct 1976)
Karate Kid aids the Legionnaires in the 30th century.

SUPERBOY [first series] # 219 (Sep 1976)

SUPERBOY [first series] # 220 (Oct 1976)

LIMITED COLLECTORS' EDITION # C-49 (Oct-Nov 1976)
Reprint cover only.

KARATE KID # 5 (Nov-Dec 1976)
Part one of two. Karate Kid battles Commander Blud.

SUPERBOY [first series] # 221

SUPERBOY [first series] # 222