posted July 24, 2002 06:44 PM            

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Originally posted by James Friel:
Does this mean you actually slogged through those Aquaman threads?

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posted July 24, 2002 06:50 PM            

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Originally posted by JayFlip:
Hmmmmm. We'll all be happy? There's a clue in there somewhere

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posted July 24, 2002 07:46 PM               

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Originally posted by NecessaryImpurity:
The bindings in 2003 will be laced with a topical euphoriant; we'll all be as stoned as Robert Downey Jr. That's how they will slip "Ultra, the Multi-Alien Archives" past us.

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I feel like a complete nerd for saying this, but there is not enough Ultra material for an archive. Its a real shame, tho', since I believe that far-out later Lee Elias artwork deserves hardcover treatment.

Yeah, yeah, I know it was a joke, but Ultra's a personal favorite...

posted July 24, 2002 10:49 PM            

This thread brings up something that I wish would be implemented, and that is TPB companions. It would work well in this instance. Another way I wish it would be used, is like this. There have been some stories that have not been included in the Legion Archives. They are mostly Mon-El appearances or Legion one panel appearances, and would have slowed the Archives down. Now granted, many have been reprinted other places, but I would like to see them together. It could be titled - "Bits of Legion Business". (Or however that used to go?) If I remember right, these were stories of Supeman, Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Supergirl, Superboy, etc... What a great mix for a TPB. DC could use this as a testing ground for other companion pieces to other Archives. This would also work well with Supergirl. I understand there are quite a few guest appearances she made in other comics, that were not in her Archive. Now we could have them together. Include an index of where they would have fit with the Archive stories, and I would be happy.

posted July 25, 2002 01:15 AM               

It's true that the LSH ARCHIVES could continue without them. For the most part, they're not that important to the overall scheme of things. That said, there are enough tangential appearences to make them worthwhile. I was surprised by how many times the Legion shows up. Really, picking and choosing is not an option. For the story to flow nicely, all the KK's should be included, and that means KAMANDI #58 too. Perhaps a text page could appear that explains some of the dangling cliffhangers to the Kamandi story--maybe even a little bit about the DC Explosion/Implosion.

To help Bob/Dale out, I vote for Outpost 2's option #2. Put KARATE KID #1 at the back of ARCHIVE 12 and see how things shake out.

posted July 25, 2002 01:52 AM               

Point is, most of those stories have little significance to the Legion as a group. If we were ever to get to volumes that could feature Secrets, Cosmic Boy or Legionnaires 3, I'd be in favor of those because: a) they won't individually have so much material as to encompass an entire archive's worth in page count, and b) they relate strongly and are really significant to the "home" title.

posted July 25, 2002 01:52 AM            

It occurs to me that we may have Legion fans on this thread that didn't follow the Aquaman debate which some posters have referenced. Let me summarize -- there was an issue about whether Aquaman should begin with his first Golden Age stories or be jump-started somewhere in the Silver Age. All active message board posters unanimously agreed that Aquaman must start in the Golden Age. Having settled that debate in about 5 minutes, we then unanimously agreed that Superman could beat up Thor, the Beatles are better than the Rolling Stones, baseball should dump the designated hitter, and the Supreme Court robbed Gore. Then DC bought us all pizza and beer.

posted July 25, 2002 01:57 AM               

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Originally posted by KADE:
I'm looking forward to seeing the epilogue to "The Great Darkness Saga" that came a couple of years after the original story as it originally appeared, not the "corrected" post-Crisis version that appears in the trade paperback....

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posted July 25, 2002 03:39 AM            

I own these issues already but I like having all of my Legion stories nicely collected together. In fact, I wish LOIS LANE #50, JIMMY OLSEN #99, and any other cameos by Legionnaires were included in the previous editions. Maybe we could have a special Vol. 0 issue later on?

I hope that JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA #147 & 148 will BE included as well. I own the originals and will buy the JUSTICE LEAGUE ARCHIVE & TPB in which they will appear as well. I have purchased all the JUSTICE LEAGUE ARCHIVES to date. Having the Legion appearances in the SUPERGIRL ARCHIVES didn't bother me at all. I'm a completist!

BTW, the Legion Checklist appeared in LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES Vol. 2 #298, 299, 301, 302, & 305.

For those of us who have been patiently waiting for these archives, how about giving us Vol. 12 and Vol. 13 in 2003?!?!

posted July 25, 2002 07:13 AM            

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Originally posted by LARDLAD:
I vote for including KK #1 in he next volume, but that's probably as far as it should go. Putting the entire series in there makes no sense. It would really break up the flow of the archives. And I'd really hate to see the milestones I'm waiting for (Chemical King's death, Dawnstar, the big wedding and Earthwar and, yes, the JLA crossover) pushed back an entire archive just for the sake of completism.

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posted July 25, 2002 07:15 AM            

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Originally posted by NecessaryImpurity:
The bindings in 2003 will be laced with a topical euphoriant; we'll all be as stoned as Robert Downey Jr. That's how they will slip "Ultra, the Multi-Alien Archives" past us.

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posted July 25, 2002 09:16 AM            

...I started buying Legions off the drugstore racks with 210 (well, actually Superboy, but anyway...)

And, I rarely EVEN REMEMBER seeing Karate Kids at stores...(I DO remember conversations about quite a few titles, both DC and Marvel, in the 1970s that JUST never made it to stores...)

True, while with a bit of work, you can find Karate Kid issues on E-bay, it is likely that some folks NEVER even saw these issues when they were new (I admit to having to have gotten them after discovering one of Michigan's FEW comic stores of the 1970s, but had to get them AFTER they were out...)

(Again, this is a debate that will continue for some time, but for the immediate needs of Volume 12...go with issue 1, and we can debate this again when it is time to think about Volume 13!)

posted July 25, 2002 11:31 AM               

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Originally posted by Marty Raap:
I take Mr. Greenberger's comment as a hint that we will see an Aquaman Archive in 2003, and that it may be announced in San Diego. I guess we'll see.

It occurs to me that we may have Legion fans on this thread that didn't follow the Aquaman debate which some posters have referenced. Let me summarize -- there was an issue about whether Aquaman should begin with his first Golden Age stories or be jump-started somewhere in the Silver Age. All active message board posters unanimously agreed that Aquaman must start in the Golden Age. Having settled that debate in about 5 minutes, we then unanimously agreed that Superman could beat up Thor, the Beatles are better than the Rolling Stones, baseball should dump the designated hitter, and the Supreme Court robbed Gore. Then DC bought us all pizza and beer.

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You're right about all that other stuff, but I refuse to have all my posts about Bob Dylan being greater than the Beatles and Stones combined silenced! I WILL NOT BE SILENCED!!!! Just 'cause the moderator had to delete them all!!!!

grumble grumble grouse grouse.....

oh, and I was surprised how quickly we dispatched that Aquaman dilemma.

posted July 25, 2002 12:24 PM               

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Originally posted by James Friel:
Does this mean you actually slogged through those Aquaman threads?

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You bet I did. Found the discussion fascinating. My head hurt only once or twice.

posted July 25, 2002 12:27 PM               

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Originally posted by Bob Greenberger:
You bet I did. Found the discussion fascinating. My head hurt only once or twice.

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posted July 25, 2002 12:37 PM               

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Originally posted by Bob Greenberger:
You bet I did. Found the discussion fascinating. My head hurt only once or twice.

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This is a victory for the evolution of human physiology. You have quite the cranium, Bob!

posted July 25, 2002 01:07 PM               

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For the story to flow nicely, all the KK's should be included, and that means KAMANDI #58 too.

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Totally disagree. Number one is a self-contained story that is important to LSH history. After that, the book is pretty much a Kung Fu series. Most LSH fans would probably enjoy the Nemesis Kid story. Unless they're a huge fan of Karate Kid, most LSH fans could probably do without the rest of the series.

posted July 25, 2002 01:45 PM               

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Originally posted by kcekada:
Totally disagree. Number one is a self-contained story that is important to LSH history. After that, the book is pretty much a Kung Fu series. Most LSH fans would probably enjoy the Nemesis Kid story. Unless they're a huge fan of Karate Kid, most LSH fans could probably do without the rest of the series.

KC

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Here's why I said what I did. I have everything of the Legion collected, going back to S/LSH #197 in comics form and the rest in Archives. I too think the KK stories that include the Legion aren't important or very noteworthy. But, the point is, they're in there A LOT. And Archive books aren't just for printing the stuff we like--there for printing everything in the history of a character, the good and the bad.

I paged through my KK's before I wrote my post and found that nearly all of the Legion guest shots are part of some 2-parter, or end with a cliffhanger, or have some other detail in them that will make little sense unless the whole series is included. Believe me, this really doesn't make me all that happy, because I too want to see the tabloid collected, Earthwar, and some other things. But jumping around just won't read well. And not including them leaves out some pretty meaty (in terms of length, not importance) appearances.

For those that suggest a KARATE KID ARCHIVE...I wouldn't want that at all. As stand alones, they're not very good. It would be a whole book of mediocrity. But including them as part of the 70s Legion--I have to reluctantly vote yes.

posted July 25, 2002 03:00 PM            

The more I think about the KK issue, the more I think all issues should be chronologically included in Legion. I wouldn't really want a separate Archive or tpb. The issue in my view isn't how many Legionnaires have to appear to make it a Legion story; the issue is whether the story is really a Legion story at heart or the story of another character in that character's title that just happens to feature a Legion appearance. The Legion Archives should include all primarily Legion-related material and omit material more closely identified with another character. KK is clearly a Legion spin-off at its core, in the manner of Legionnaires 3 or Secrets of the Legion or Cosmic Boy, and accordingly belongs with Legion.

posted July 25, 2002 03:06 PM            

There is at least ONE other Legion member in:
1, 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12 and 13.

So, HALF the run has at least TWO Legionnaires (okay, 8 & 9 are just Jeckie, but still...)

And, 8-10 ARE important (they detail how Jeckie misses Val, followed up on in S&LSH 231, with the two of them vs. the Fatal Five, and when Jeckie has her breakdown in S&LSH 233...)

Not to mention, with all the time hopping that went on in those Legion stories back then, KK 12 & 13 have an odd occurance (that I still find to be a cute story, where Val meets a Legion from BEFORE he joined...)

(And, yes, I love Val & Jeckie...oddly enough, they were favorites of mine...BEFORE I ever found the Karate Kid series...or maybe IN SPITE of that series!)

posted July 25, 2002 04:39 PM               

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Originally posted by datalore:
There is at least ONE other Legion member in:
1, 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12 and 13.

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