posted April 17, 2003 12:26 PM               

Thank you, Bob, for the quick and professional response!

posted April 17, 2003 01:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dean Lee:
I emailed Bob, and he promptly replied. He apologized for my disappointment, and said he forwarded my message to Dale Crain, the editor in question.

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posted April 18, 2003 02:11 PM               

As for the reproduction of the tabloid art, I haven't gotten to a full scale critique of that particular image, but the parts of it that were put on the book's slipcover indicate to me that the re-inking was done very poorly. Most of the charm of Grell's original linework is homogenized into a very bland, poorly detailed representation of the Legionnaires.

It seems like you and I have different standards, DStepp. I'm glad you're happy with the book, hopefully you can relax and enjoy the stories. I'm still working through that. I think once I identify all the mistakes, I'll no longer be surprised by them, and will be able to look past them as I read the stories. Venting all this has been very helpful to me.

posted April 18, 2003 03:39 PM            

I'm just not so rude as to tell you to go away until you satisfy my petty desires.

posted April 18, 2003 05:31 PM               

A costume that has ALWAYS been green is now brown? HUGE MAJOR.

I know there's a LOT to know in the Legion-verse, but a FAN *would* know.

posted April 18, 2003 10:03 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by MLLASH:
[B]Having Lightning Lad colored with Brainiac 5's skin and hair is NOT minor. It's HUGE MAJOR.

A costume that has ALWAYS been green is now brown? HUGE MAJOR.

[B]

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It's hard enough for newer Legion fans to keep track of all the characters. Errors like these are very dissapointing.

posted April 18, 2003 11:44 PM               

Ignore flamers -

posted April 19, 2003 01:06 AM               

Dean seems not to feel this happened, and he responded in absolutely the most appropriate way possible: he took his complaint to DC and made his fellow fans aware of the problems as he sees them. That's how you get results as a consumer in a free market. As far as I've seen, Dean hasn't called for a boycott, or demanded a reprint or even asked for his money back.

Maybe because Dean has put his neck out on the line the next archive that you buy that means as much to you as this one did to him, you will be fortunate enough to get a product you are happy with. Maybe you should appreciate someone who's trying to solve a problem, instead of acting like you have been.

posted April 19, 2003 07:38 AM               

1) These are reprints. They are not perfect. If you want true blue original, go buy NM copies of the originals. Contrary to the flapping on that goes around here, a full set of NM copies of those books will cost a lot more than $35.

2) The colorist got 99.99% of the characters and objects correct. He might have failed 0.01% of the time. I seriously doubt you could do a whole lot better, esp on a deadline. Recognizing that this is basically an inexpensive reprint series, I can live with 99.99% correct. (It's inexpensive in relative terms. People who can't afford $35 because they don't have a job don't get to decide what 'expensive' is.).

3) DC should always strive for the highest quality. We should encourage them, not punish them, when they hit the 99.99% mark. If you want no program at all, encourage people not to buy the Archives. If you're an intelligent, realistic person who appreciates high-quality reprints at a reasonable price, I recommend you spend your $35 of Legion Archives #12.

posted April 19, 2003 08:26 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dean Lee:
I don't care for DStepp's rudeness, but it doesn't make any difference. Now that I've started my own personal edit of the coloring in this edition, I do plan on posting my findings. I figure that's fair since some people have actually said they'd pass on this one based on what I've said. Yes, some of the mistakes are minor, and I'd like others to be able to decide for themselves if they're negligable or not. Oh, and I'll still pop in and out here at the boards until then.

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Dean, thanks for posting your observations. I have all of the Legion archives and plan on purchasing vol. 12 despite any coloring errors, but it's still good to have this information. I don't think it's nit-picking at all - the core audience for the archives is made up of fans and collectors who notice exactly the kind of errors you've pointed out. Other coloring issues have been debated extensively on other threads, BTW.

I look forward to reading your compiled list, and thank you for pointing out the errors to Dale Crain.

posted April 19, 2003 10:22 AM            

Spoken like a true bean-counter!!!

posted April 19, 2003 10:23 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by DStepp:
2) The colorist got 99.99% of the characters and objects correct. He might have failed 0.01% of the time. I seriously doubt you could do a whole lot better, esp on a deadline. Recognizing that this is basically an inexpensive reprint series, I can live with 99.99% correct. (It's inexpensive in relative terms. People who can't afford $35 because they don't have a job don't get to decide what 'expensive' is.).

---

I find this argument lacking for a couple reasons. Neither of these reasons are related to the snotty tone of the post.

1) First I take issue with the statement that "99.99% of the characters and objects [are] correct." It was pulled out of thin air. I don't know you and you don't know me, but I've read some of your other posts here. I routinely see you strive for a solid critique. For this reason, I find your use of this datum surprising; it's really just hyperbole disguised as a statistic. But I'll raise your rhetorical device with some paraleipsis of my own: I won't even concern myself with this first point. However...

2) Even if you could mathematically establish that 99.99% of the square footage of the book was colored correctly, that still doesn't establish a success on the part of the colorist. It is fundamental to visual design to understand that not all elements of a composition are equal. If Cosmic Boy were shown pushing a blue button when it should be red, I'd say big deal. If Phantom Girl were depicted using a green hairbrush when the original was purple, I'd agree -- who cares. But the issue at hand seems to be coloring errors related to characters that are central to both the story and to the individual compositions of panels. Try as you might to make that sound like an accomplishment, it's damn hard. When dealing with art on a page, you need style as well as quantity in order to meet with success. That's Art History 101, if not plain common sense.

So there's my perspective.

posted April 19, 2003 10:40 AM               

99.99% of not purely a number out of thin air. I can do a rough count of objects on a page and extrapolate. It's not hard. I might be off by a touch but I will wait for that list.

I saw no error along the lines of red vs blue buttons. Indeed, the only major error I have seen is the green face on LL and that's in the background (action is in the foreground). There are a number of minor coloring flaws (There is some prediliction of coloring Ultra Boy's chest insignia the wrong color with such frequency that I wonder if it was the colorist or the printer) and there are some smearings (Sun Boy's chest insignia might be the same color as his tunic in a melee shot)but these were common in the originals. I haven't seen anything along the lines of Green Lantern picking up something Yellow with his ring or having an purple costume for instance.

Also, I dish out ridicule in appropriate measure. The art errors are annoying but calling for a re-issue or declaring you won't buy it for a few background errors is stupid, esp when you have never done it and provide no evidence that you could do a better job. Centuries of experiences has demonstrated to me that when you get people of that ilk, nothing will satisfy them so why bother? At least abusing this provides a momentary entertainment for oneself and allows you to forget what color hair brush Phantom Girl was using.