posted July 24, 2002 09:20 AM               

There's been a lot of discussion on the Karate Kid series here and its inclusion (or lack thereof) in the Legion Archives.

Me, I'm for including the Karate Kid series in the Legion Archives since the series has been highlighting ALL Legion appearances and Karate Kid, though in the 20th century during the series, is a Legionnaire. That said, I think JLA 147-148 also needs to be included in the series, even though that particular story will also see print in a JLA Archive and the JLA/JSA trade paperback series, just for the sake of completion.

Just my two cents.

posted July 24, 2002 09:55 AM               

I'd also like to thank you for actively soliciting opinions on how to handle something like this.

And now to throw in my 2 cents. Maybe someone has already suggested this (the thread is already to 5 pages and its only Wednesday morning; I couldn't read them all): I'd vote for a KK tpb. I know it is a write-in candidate, but I think it would give us the best of both worlds. We would be able to read the stories, which is my primary goal. We would also be able to move the Legion Archives forward without including material that others may find of lesser value. I think there are a lot of other series that deserve Archive treatment before KK, so a stand alone volume I think is a bad idea. It could be put out the same month as Legion 12 so that people who want to read the stories in sequence could do so.

Thanks for the chance to offer some feedback.

posted July 24, 2002 10:14 AM               

A new piece of cover art would be appreciated this time though!

posted July 24, 2002 10:18 AM               

It seems to me however as someone not emotionally connected to this archive line, that the person who suggested including KK 1 in the next archive and waiting to see, was spot on.

If this is done, it'll be a good few years until this hard decision has to be made.

btw to clarify, i'm not just an uninformed outsider giving an opinion - my LSH collection is pretty complete from the late sixties (scattered issues prior to that)up until 3 years ago when i lost interest and includes such spinoffs as Legionnaires Three, Cosmic Boy, Karate Kid and Valor.

posted July 24, 2002 10:31 AM            

(Val vs. Nemesis Kid, and the Legion is around...and, folks who get Volume 12 and see this one tale will then be in a better position to judge...)

But, what of the JLA/JSA/LSH story? My feeling on that is...not to, since it will be in the JLA Archives, likely the JLA/JSA TPBs, and it really screws up the flow of the Legion Archives...BUT I'm not inflexible on this (and, while not the greatest tale, it IS more legitimate than, say, Kamandi 58, and I say include that too!)

Bob, has any of this helped in the decision process? (And, hey, will we get to do this when/if they reach the time of the Cosmic Boy limited series? )

Oh, and thanks, Kamandi2 for remembering the B&B issue, and I'm glad we have you on board, Cave!

posted July 24, 2002 11:33 AM               

As to the JLA crossover, I buy the JLA Archives. The story appeared in JLA, that's where it should be archived.

posted July 24, 2002 11:52 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by datalore:
Bob, has any of this helped in the decision process? (And, hey, will we get to do this when/if they reach the time of the Cosmic Boy limited series? )

Oh, and thanks, Kamandi2 for remembering the B&B issue, and I'm glad we have you on board, Cave!

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It should be at least 10 years (assuming there's one volume of Legion per year) before we get anywhere near the 1986 Cosmic Boy mini (around Volume 23 or so, just to ballpark a number). In the meantime there's two different Legion appearances in DC Comics Presents, a DC Special Series ('Christmas With the Super-Heroes')issue, both the KK and LSH Brave and the Bold issues. Lump in the occasional Digest cover and everything else that I can't recall...

Once the page count jumps back to 25 per issue with the Sept' 1980 issues, they'll likely have only 9 standard sized issues per archive (as opposed to about 12 issues of the 17+cover issues pre-September 1980 per archive). Don't forget to squeeze in the 'Secrets of the Legion' mini, too!

By that time, they should have a clear map of what issues are going to be included (or, if you will, considered 'vital' appearances) of the Legion and/or solo appearances.

BTW, didn't hey run a checklist of all pertinent Legion appearances in the text pages just before LSH #300 that they could work off of?

posted July 24, 2002 01:38 PM               

quote:

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But Superboy and Supergirl are also Legionnaires and all their outside appearances have not been reprinted. I think the argument could me made to include some of the LSH appearances in KK, but the rest would not fit with the LSH material and would slow down the archiving of the "good stuff."

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True, but we have a Supergirl Archive (with more to come?) and a forthcoming Superboy Archive. The chances of Karate Kid having an archive of his own are slim, and the fact that the Legion did make several appearances in the KK title make it more likely that those stories should appear here, and--for the sake of continuity--the issues where they didn't appear should probably also be included.

A precedent has already been set to include all Legion appearances (and to my knowledge none have been excluded, though someone might correct me on this), so the JLA/JSA team-up should also be included.

It does slow down the time till we get to the good stuff, but in actuality only by one, maybe one and a half, volumes.

I'm looking forward to seeing the epilogue to "The Great Darkness Saga" that came a couple of years after the original story as it originally appeared, not the "corrected" post-Crisis version that appears in the trade paperback, the inclusion of the Christmas story from 1980, the "Secrets of the Legion" mini from the early '80s, and so much more. I'm more confused by what's going to happen to the stories after Crisis. But that's another story.

posted July 24, 2002 01:50 PM               

quote:

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True, but we have a Supergirl Archive (with more to come?) and a forthcoming Superboy Archive. The chances of Karate Kid having an archive of his own are slim, and the fact that the Legion did make several appearances in the KK title make it more likely that those stories should appear here, and--for the sake of continuity--the issues where they didn't appear should probably also be included.

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I can understand wanting to include the issues with significant LSH appearances. But to include the other issues, because KK is not popular enough to warrant his own archive, seems bass ackwards to me. Argueing that they could not support an archive of their own, and they should therefore be included here, sounds like the goal is to force fans to choose between not collecting the LSH archives any further, or paying for non-LSH material they would rather not buy.

posted July 24, 2002 01:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by quincyjb:
quote:
Argueing that they could not support an archive of their own, and they should therefore be included here, sounds like the goal is to force fans to choose between not collecting the LSH archives any further, or paying for non-LSH material they would rather not buy.

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posted July 24, 2002 02:50 PM               

Please refresh my memory. In which issue did the epilogue originally appear? Thanks in advance.

posted July 24, 2002 03:20 PM               

As for other LSH appearances being excluded -there are a whole bunch that were not included: Superman # 152, and others;
Lois Lane # 50, and others; Jimmy Olsen - bunches- including covers where JO is dressed as Colossal Boy, etc. Mon-el was popping up all over the place, too, in Jimmy Olsen, and Action Comics- but the editor of the Archive decided that these appearances were not important to take space in the Legion of Super-Heroes Archives, though.

A wonderful full-page house ad of the pre-Adventure 300 era that touted our heroes as being set in the 21st century was never reprinted.

posted July 24, 2002 03:36 PM               

As an addendum to my previous post a suggestion. (I am not trying to be rude to the editor of the Archives, btw.)

posted July 24, 2002 04:11 PM               

Anyway, no decision has been made, but it's great to see the enthusiasm and well-reasoned arguments. Heck, several of you have even done enough research to save me some time for the future. Trust me, significant things like the Secrets of the Legion mini and Cosmic Boy mini will be included but those are quite a bit away, especially if we include all the KK stories.

As for how this compares to the Aquaman argument, I'd sayy they're about the same. In fact, your arguments sparked some internal debate as we planned out the 2003 line-up. The first few books for the new year will be announced in San Diego, both at the Collected Editions panel and the What's new at DC slide show. We have most fo 2003 now mapped out and I'd like to think you will all be happy.

You may now go back to your debating.

posted July 24, 2002 05:16 PM               

D.

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posted July 24, 2002 05:28 PM            

And, I smell chum in the water via the phrase Aquaman...

posted July 24, 2002 06:39 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Bob Greenberger:
...As for how this compares to the Aquaman argument, I'd sayy they're about the same. In fact, your arguments sparked some internal debate as we planned out the 2003 line-up. The first few books for the new year will be announced in San Diego, both at the Collected Editions panel and the What's new at DC slide show. We have most fo 2003 now mapped out and I'd like to think you will all be happy....

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posted July 24, 2002 06:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Bob Greenberger:
We have most fo 2003 now mapped out and I'd like to think you will all be happy.

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Hmmmmm. We'll all be happy? There's a clue in there somewhere