posted April 19, 2003 05:47 PM               

I can only take small bits of time to sit down and note the mistakes, so overall, the process will probably take some time. The kind of mistakes that I'm noting are mostly in the details, like Wildfire's star on his chest is done in red when it should be yellow. The white stripes on Light Lass' costume are filled in dark blue, as is the feather on her chest that's supposed to be yellow. The yellow trim on Karate Kid's costume is done sometimes, sometimes not. It's that kind of thing, page after page. Then there are just blatant mistakes like not coloring Tyroc's left shoulder or the dreaded Lightning Lad with green skin.

About the original issues versus these reprints: I find that the archive editions are the perfect opportunity to get the colors right, if mistakes were made in the originals. On one of the original covers, Dream Girl's hair and costume were done in Saturn Girl's colors. As a Dream Girl fan, I like to see her get as much cover exposure as possible. Saturn Girl gets plenty already. So, for the archive reprint of that cover, it would have been the perfect opportunity to fix that. Nope. Dream Girl has yellow (blonde) hair instead of white (platinum) and her costume is pink instead of white. The mistakes made in the original issues were unacceptable too, but to make the same mistakes twice is, well, doubly unacceptable.

And one more thing... Yes, I do think I could do a better job! First of all, I know the details of this series because of a nearly lifelong interest and study of them. Secondly, I draw and color them for fun, all the time. Third, I know Photoshop, so I have the technical skills necessary to do the job. If they don't use Pshop, I could quickly learn the process or tools they do. Early in my career in graphics, deadlines ruled my life! Deadline pressure, to me, is NO excuse for shoddy work. You get it done right, and on time.

In one of my several fun and positive-feeling email exchanges with Dale Crain, I even offered to be a "test audience" or "fan consultant" in the future. He said he'd keep that in mind. He also mentioned the time constraint they live with on these. I hope his new colorist can cut it.

posted April 19, 2003 09:07 PM               

I can see the value of sticking to the original, mistakes and all, but at the end of the day, I want Dream Girl, Light Lass, etc. colored correctly even if the editors missed the error in 1970.

posted April 20, 2003 07:06 AM               

There are a lot of small mistakes. That's my point.

>>and you lost most credibility with me when you complained about the coloring mistakes in the original series being reprinted here. it is an archive series so i would expect them to represent it as it was presented the first time. <<

I believe that reprinting a mistake is making the same mistake twice. However, those instances don't make up the bulk of my complaint. The bulk of my complaint is that there are many, many little errors that fill the entire book. I just don't think it should be that way.

>>i'm still looking forward to your in-depth review of this book so that i can see the wealth of minor mistakes that were made. i'll buy it anyway, and i'll be happy to get the reprinted stories at all. <<

I will supply facts, not opinion.

>>i also find it petty that you would get some sort of joy out of the editor not using the colorist again. he should not be taking the blame for something that the editor could have had fixed before the volume was printed if he felt it was a major problem. on the other hand, it could have been a printing error. it's not very likely, but to personally blame one person without knowledge of the events seems a bit foolhardy.<<

posted April 20, 2003 03:47 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dean Lee:
The editor of the book seemed to blame the colorist, and found it prudent to release him. I don't find joy in someone losing their job, but I do support the decision to do what is needed in order to ensure that future editions are well crafted.

---

What, then, is the editor's job, if not to prevent mistakes like this from seeing print? Quite a few of the volumes have errors in the table of contents, one (WF v2) even has an internal cover with a spelling error that wasn't on the original. No one is perfect, but blaming the colorist doesn't give me confidence that DC is learning from their mistakes.

BTW, were Colossal Boy's arms and legs fully exposed in the originals? I remember them being blue. Just wondering...

posted April 20, 2003 06:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by James Friel:
Exceptions would be in cases when, as in Hulk #1, the mistake has been enshrined in continuity.

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Where did you get the idea that the Hulk being grey in IH #1 (I presume that's what you're talking about) was a mistake? From everything I've heard, the original plan was for him to be, and stay, grey - it was when the printer had trouble keeping him the same shade that they made the conscious decision to change him to green. (As I understand it, there WERE a few reprints where, either by colouring errors or an active retconning attempt, he was green, but that doesn't change the original intent.)

------------------
"Now there are moments in life in which we are allowed to be paranoid, and this was one of them. All we had done was to try and find the home of the President of America, and now here we were, caught up in the middle of a tornado!

I think I'm entitled to ask: exactly how powerful are the FBI?"

posted April 20, 2003 10:05 PM               

I wonder what the reasoning is behind using brown to replace the green color on Ultra Boy's costume. Is it like this in all the archives?

posted April 21, 2003 02:59 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:
Where did you get the idea that the Hulk being grey in IH #1 (I presume that's what you're talking about) was a mistake? From everything I've heard, the original plan was for him to be, and stay, grey - it was when the printer had trouble keeping him the same shade that they made the conscious decision to change him to green....

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posted April 21, 2003 11:34 AM               

I just re-read one of my emails from Dale Crain. He said he did the same thing I did when he saw the proofs of the colored pages- he felt shocked by all the errors. He mentioned how their lack of time prevented the errors from being corrected. I don't know, but it sounds like he, the editor, provided the colorist with reference material and trusted him to get it right the first time. Didn't happen.

Again, I'm doing this for a couple reasons, 1)to support my more emotional complaint with actual facts, 2) to give information to those who'd like it to assess for themselves if the mistakes are negligible or not.

posted April 21, 2003 05:06 PM               

I have hand-written notes on each page in question, but I haven't typed them into the computer yet. That will take some time...

Believe it or not, I still want to encourage people to buy it. Yes, beware of little glitches throughout, but the original artwork by Mike Grell is so terrific. The stories are very entertaining, too. Now that I've familiarized myself with the mistakes, they no longer take me by surprise, distracting me. I'll be able to read this edition whenever I want, and be able to enjoy it regardless. I guess I've exorcised my disappointment.

posted April 21, 2003 07:47 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Dean Lee:
Okay, I've finished my personal edit/analysis of the edition's coloring. I counted 232 pages of colored artwork, including the front and back covers and the title page, the table of contents page and the forward page. I found that 102 pages did not have some kind of coloring mistake on them, of course leaving 130 pages that did have mistakes.

I have hand-written notes on each page in question, but I haven't typed them into the computer yet. That will take some time...

Believe it or not, I still want to encourage people to buy it. Yes, beware of little glitches throughout, but the original artwork by Mike Grell is so terrific. The stories are very entertaining, too. Now that I've familiarized myself with the mistakes, they no longer take me by surprise, distracting me. I'll be able to read this edition whenever I want, and be able to enjoy it regardless. I guess I've exorcised my disappointment.

I appreciate having a forum like this in order to discuss it (whether or not we agree is a separate issue). I do hope that I've been helpful to someone out there.

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Thanks! I'd be very happy to see the list. When I read the archive, (getting it from mail order) it will be the first time I've ever read the stories. It'll be great to have a list of the errors. Sometimes the Legion can be tough on new readers, so I like the chance to see that I'm not crazy and the White Witch has always had white hair (except for those times she didn't).

posted April 21, 2003 08:49 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Joe Pacheco:
Thanks! I'd be very happy to see the list. When I read the archive, (getting it from mail order) it will be the first time I've ever read the stories. It'll be great to have a list of the errors. Sometimes the Legion can be tough on new readers, so I like the chance to see that I'm not crazy and the White Witch has always had white hair (except for those times she didn't).

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There are a handful of times when one character is colored as if they were someone else, for example, Dream Girl is shown in Saturn Girl's coloring, Phantom Girl in Shrinking Violet's, Cosmic Boy in Superboy's, Lightning Lad has green skin, etc. These are pretty much just small scenes, but still misleading. You can still totally tell what's going on in the stories, though.

posted April 21, 2003 09:10 PM            

------------------
Martin Maenza

posted April 22, 2003 12:11 AM               

Notes:
I will only make notes on pages with mistakes. When colors are correct, I will not note it.
When I used the term “sb” it means “should be.”

Cover- Tyroc’s collar on his left side sb white, not his skin tone
Saturn Girl’s eyes sb blue, not left blank (white)

Title Page- the points of LL’s lightning bolts sb yellow, the spot in between sb blue

Notes:
The headshots of Superboy and the Legionnaires appear across the top of the covers of several issues reprinted in this edition. There are slight color variances almost everytime the image is used. I will note it whenever a mistake is made

Ultra Boy’s chest symbol and his waistband are consistently colored a yellowish brown instead of their proper light green. I will not note that error anymore, but will note any different mistakes made on Ultra Boy’s image.

Page 9
Headshots
Karate Kid’s collar sb yellow
Phantom Girl’s barrette should be white
Shadow Lass’ tiara sb yellow

Cover Image
Cosmic Boy’s right shoulder sb pink, not the blue of the ship
Saturn Girl’s right thigh sb her skin tone, not the pink of her boots
Ultra Boy’s chest symbol sb green, not red

Page10
There sb orange between Wildfire’s collar and wing symbol
Saturn Girl’s right shoulder sb her skin tone, not the pink of her costume, her right leg should not be left white
Sun Boy’s neck sb his skin tone, not red
Phantom Girl’s barrette sb white

Page 11
Panel 1
PG’s barrette sb white
Sat Girl’s Saturn symbol sb white
Lightning Lad’s neck sb his skin tone, not blue, his left shoulder sb yellow
Chameleon Boy’s face should be orange, not a Caucasian skin tone

Page 11 contd
Panel 5
PG’s barrette sb white
There sb orange between Wildfire’s star and wings

Page 12
Panel 2
Wildfire’s star sb yellow

Page 13
Panel 4
Coz’ collar sb pink, not Caucasian, his chest sb pink, not blue (the colorist thought he was Superboy)
Panel 5
PG’s barrette sb white

Page 14
Panel 5
PG’s barrette sb white
Coz’ cuff sb white

Page 15
Panel 1
The space between LL’s arm and body sb the background color, orange

Page 16
Panel 1
Wildfire’s collar sb red, his star yellow
Panels 2,3,and 4
PG’s barrette sb white
Panel 5
Coz’ collar sb pink

Page 17
Panel 1
Sun Boy’s arm sb yellow, not orange
Panel 6
PG’s barrette sb white

Page 18
Panel 1
Sat Girl’s left boot sb pink
Brainy’s stomach sb the purple of his uniform, art error- his belt should
Have been drawn in there, the space between his body and his left arm sb the blue of the ship
Coz’ cuffs sb white
Page 18 contd
Panel 2
Sat G’s symbol sb white
Coz’ cuff sb white

Panel 6
Coz’ cuffs sb white
Wildfire’s collar sb red

Page 19
Panel 4
Sun Boy’s symbol sb yellow
Wildfire’s star sb yellow, his belt sb orange
Panel 6
Superboy’s belt sb yellow

Page 21
Panel 3
Brainy’s boots sb yellow
Panel 6
There are white spots on Shrinking Vi’s costume which sb green
Superboy’s hand sb his skin tone, not blue
Brainy’s eye sb blue

Page 22
Panel 2
The eyes in TWolf’s symbol sb grey, not orange

Page 24
Panel 1
TWolf’s leg sb orange, not left white
Panel 5
The eyes in TWolf’s symbol sb grey, not orange

Page 26
Panel 3
TWolf’s left leg sb orange, not white

Page 27
Panel 4
TWolf’s left glove sb grey, not left white
Panel 5
The eyes in TWolf’s symbol sb grey, not orange

Page 28
KK’s collar sb yellow
PG’s barrette sb white
Shady’s tiara sb yellow

Wildfire’s star sb yellow
McCauley’s hair on his left side sb orange (red), not his skin tone (colorist must have thought it was his ear)

Page 29
The stripes on KK’s sleeves and the base of his tunic sb yellow

Page 30
Panels 4, 5
KK’s trim sb yellow, his arm band sb brown

Page 31
Panel 3
Shady’s tiara sb yellow

Page 32
Panels 2,3
KK’s trim sb yellow

Page 33
Panel 4
KK’s trim sb yellow

Page 34
Panel 3
KK’s collar sb yellow

Page 35
Panel 7
Wildfire’s star sb yellow
The reverse section of Superboy’s S sb yellow

Page 36
Panel 6
KK’s trim sb yellow

Page 38
Panel 1
Wildfire’s left side has a white section which sb orange
KK’s collar and trim sb yellow

Page 39
Panel 3
KK’s trim sb yellow

Page 40
Panel 2
KK’s collar sb yellow
Panel 4
The space inside the S of Shady’s armband sb her blue skin tone

Page 42
Panel 4
There is a white section on Vi’s chest which sb her skin tone

Page 43
Panel 4
The black detailing on Vi’s chest should show her skin tone beneath, not white
Panel 5
Ultra Boy’s cuff stripe was left white, it sb red or green (debatable)

Page 47
Group Headshot
Shady’s tiara sb yellow
KK’s collar sb yellow
Cover Image
Sat Girl’s symbol sb white, not yellow, her right upper arm sb her skin tone,and her gloved area sb pink, not her skin tone. The space behind her right arm sb the purple of the background

posted April 22, 2003 09:47 AM            

------------------
Martin Maenza

posted April 22, 2003 10:41 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by mcmaenza:
I had a feeling that this was the case - a number of minor items but consistently done the same way. Had Dean not pointed most of them out specifically, I never would have noticed them. I guess they weren't that jarring enough for me to see them on my first pass of the book.

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that's exactly the case. i noticed few of these while reading. the ones that stand out are the green-faced lightning lad and colossal boy's red legs. while i'm not in favor of a book of "poor" quality, it saddens me that so many people are going to pass this up when it really isn't much to get too excited about. people are correct when they say that errors like these are in other archives too--past legion archives as well. the stories are still really fun, and i guess i'm a little worried of the legion archive series dying out because people won't buy this one...

posted April 22, 2003 10:55 AM            

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Martin Maenza