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 Was Dynamic Duo REALLY Needed? (an honest post for you Bob G.) (Page 1)
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| Author | Topic: Was Dynamic Duo REALLY Needed? (an honest post for you Bob G.) |
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batfan63 Member |
posted February 12, 2003 06:40 PM
  
To be honest, I appreciate the archives, but was the Dynamic Duo one I bought today really that pressing???? I would rather purchase an archive of Batman stories that cost a house payment than the Silver Age 1960s stuff. I understand that DC is trying to reach readers younger than myself, and I respect the attempt, but quite frankly, this is the era of Batman that many of us are trying to forget. If its Batman, I will buy it, even if I own the issues that archived. Please do not bring back Gaggy, the midget who teamed with the Joker. If any of you don't know who Gaggy is, consider yourself fortunate. Lets see more of the Golden Age--yes I know Spectre is coming next month--over this particular era of Batman. I would argue the same for Superman and Wonder Woman. The batfan63 wish list: Had to get it out--I hope Bob G. reads. Respectfully, "Let's have Superman for President, IP: Logged |
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James Friel Member |
posted February 12, 2003 07:11 PM
I feel the same way about this era of Batman (well, more precisely, about the stuff that follows soon after this) as you do, batfan--but I'm afraid that we're probably in the minority even among over-40 fans. The mid '60s camp Batman and its effect spreading across the whole DC line was one of the reasons I abandoned DC for Marvel for a few years. So I'm less interested in this volume myself than I have been in any one since New Teen Titans vol.2, but I still expect it to sell very well, and I suspect that DC has probably made a smart move here. IP: Logged |
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TheRogueLegionnaire Member |
posted February 12, 2003 07:27 PM
I'm skipping this one too. I have most of the issues and they okay, I guess. Just not my cup of tea I guess. I like the Batman material right before this with Clayface II and Catman appearances in Detective. Oh, and Gaggy sucks about as bad as Mopee. I think the issue he appeared in was Batman #186, but I could be wrong. IP: Logged |
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KryptoSuperDog Member |
posted February 12, 2003 08:33 PM
I haven't gotten this yet, but I am very much looking forward to it. Some people just like camp, ya know? IP: Logged |
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Kamandi Last Boy on Earth Member |
posted February 12, 2003 08:53 PM
As a late comer to the Archives line, I'd just like to see Batman in Detective Comics #1 back in print. IP: Logged |
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NecessaryImpurity Member |
posted February 12, 2003 09:02 PM
quote: I just don't get this fixation on cost. Who cares if a particular issue can be had for $10 rather than $1000? I don't have those issues, I'm not interested in trying to track them down, I don't have the time to track them down, I don't have the space to store them, and I don't re-read the comics I do have. Getting these stories in a convenient, attractive, durable form is a dream come true. IP: Logged |
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Osgood Peabody Member |
posted February 12, 2003 09:24 PM
Well - I'm sure India Ink will step up to the plate here at some point, but until he does, I'll offer this up in defense of the New Look period. The first 2 years, prior to Batmania, were for the most part done straight. This is Julie Schwartz, John Broome, Gardner Fox - occasionally Herron and Finger. Solid storytelling - the art admittedly a mixed bag - although as I'm paging through this book the Moldoff stories are not so terrible. There was a blip for about a year (mid-'66 to mid-'67) where camp seeped in - not just in Batman but nearly everywhere through DC. Even here there were some worthwhile tales, such as the return of the Scarecrow. And then the ship was righted IMO with some wonderful stories such as "The Round-Robin Death Threats" and "Hunt for a Robin Killer". So to write off the entire "New Look" period as camp nonsense is a bit misleading I think. IP: Logged |
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batfan63 Member |
posted February 12, 2003 09:33 PM
quote: I am not saying costs means better. My point is that the books are more easily accessable to COMIC BOOK collectors. The difficulty in obtaining certain issues means that they may COST more to a collector. An example may help. I appreciated (and for the record asked DC in letters for three years) the Batman in World's Finest archive las t year because many of the stories were not printed since their original inception. That means they would be more difficult to obtain. If I look at the current archive of the Dynamic Duo, I would note that detective #327 was reprinted a few years ago as a silver age classic issue (or whatever they called it), Detective #328 was reprinted in a 100 pager, Detective #329 I believe was reprinted in a Batman special (I could be wrong, but I am thinking it was in a Batman family or other 100 page--I could be wrong), and The Second Batman story in #165 was reprinted in the 1970s. The others can be attainable at Comic shows and in back issues--where I found the issues I own during the last ten years. The point is that I would prefer that the archives ARCHIVE less commonly reroduced stories. Before spending $50.00, I would prefer to have an experience with stories that I have not read. As I stated in the beginning of the thread, I understand and appreciate DC's reasons. I would prefer the Golden Age stories before the issues are lost to all generations, as opposed to issues that are more attainable. IP: Logged |
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James Friel Member |
posted February 12, 2003 09:37 PM
I know, Osgood. I didn't stay around for the post-camp stuff, but I remember the first couple years of the New Look pretty well. It really isn't bad stuff. But it's in no way special as far as I'm concerned, either. Certainly not good enough, from a reader's perspective, to have justified pulling Carmine off Adam Strange. I think that was the origin of my hostility to it--that and the fact that at the time I wanted Batman to change in the other direction, to go toward the direction that Adams and Rogers eventually took him in, instead of the brighter, sunnier style of Infantino. IP: Logged |
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outpost2 Member |
posted February 12, 2003 09:40 PM
quote: I'll be 40 this year, and I'm with you, so maybe it's not the minority opinion that you think it is. This is, without a doubt, my least favorite Batman era. I bought volume 1 as a sampler of this period, but will not be picking up any subsequent volumes. IP: Logged |
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kid colt Member |
posted February 12, 2003 10:09 PM
I had the same reservations about purchasing this book, as I own several of the originals. The ones I don't own will cost me around $35, so I figure I'll just get the Archive, and sell the originals. Might even break even. Anyone know if the Elongated Man stories are reprinted also? Guys, not to be cruel, but even though these issues are prior to the O'Neil and Adams Batman, they're hardly trash. Broome, Fox, Infantino, Schwartz---all the geniuses that brought you the Atom, Flash, GL, Hawkman, and others. It's not as good as Adam Strange, but they're still darn good comics. IP: Logged |
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dylanfan Member |
posted February 12, 2003 10:20 PM
quote: NI speaks for me, as the argument that issues are "cheap and easy" to track down (always debatable, really, to those who live in an igloo in Alaska) totally sidesteps people like us. Our market doesn't care a whit about those things. DC simply needs to pick the best material, print it in this quality, archival format, and keep things interesting for all segments of the market. Sales will then dictate if they're on the right track. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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chrisccl Member |
posted February 12, 2003 10:33 PM
quote: Could you say the same about the "New Look" Silver Age Superman (Superman #241), or any other character? DC is just continuing along the path of its Silver Age hero line: Flash, GL, Atom, Hawkman (and Black Canary). Granted, I understand that we all have different preferences, but just because that you may own the original Silver Age issues does not mean DC should not have made these Batman/Detective issues into the Archival format. If anything the Dynamic Dou Archive may boost sales of other Archives. I, too, agree with NecessaryImpurity and dylanfan. I have no desire, the time or the money, to go out and scrounge for the original issues. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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James Friel Member |
posted February 13, 2003 12:53 AM
As I said in my first post, I think it was probably a very good move on DC's part--a lot of folks liked (and like) these comics. And I don't hate them--they just don't ring any bells for me. IP: Logged |
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daytripper Member |
posted February 13, 2003 04:24 AM
I wish that DC would print, in tpb form, the Elongated Man stories that ran in Detective. The Infantino penciled and inked stories were just great fun, and deserve to be put back into print. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Lee Semmens Member |
posted February 13, 2003 05:32 AM
In my opinion, Batman stories, particularly by Infantino, of the 1964-68 period (apart from about 1966/67 when camp was all the rage) are perhaps only behind the 1968-75 era as my favorite Batman period, although I am very keen on 1940s Batman. I certainly far prefer this period to the late 1950s and early 1960s, which is what I consider the nadir of Batman, with an abundance of puerile stories, often featuring, inappropiately for Batman, sci-fi themes. I have read where editor Julie Schwartz was called in by National Periodical's (as DC were known then) publisher in 1964 to attempt to revive the then flagging Batman and Detective Comics. Schwartz was apparently informed that if he could not increase sales serious consideration would be given to dropping both titles. Schwartz must have been able to increase sales dramatically, because only a year or so later the highly successful (whether we like or loathe it) Batman TV show was launched. Since then, Batman has never really looked back. IP: Logged |
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Carlo Member |
posted February 13, 2003 11:47 AM
Was the Dynamic Duo REALLY needed? Geez, matter of taste, huh? I JUST ordered it from Tales of Wonder as a birthday treat for myself. It fills in many of the gaps in my silver age collection. So, heck yeah, it was REALLY needed for me! Those with a "distaste" for the Golden Age stuff could counter whether all that Golden Age archive stuff is "really needed"! Vote with yer' wallet, podnar! Best... IP: Logged |
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JayFlip Member |
posted February 13, 2003 01:11 PM
I'm very much enjoying this archive - much more so than I thought I would. The stories are a lot of fun, the Infantino art is superb, and the Moldoff/Kane art is better than I remembered (no doubt helped by Giella's inks, which seem to read better in the upscale format). Is this archive "needed?" When you think about it, is any archive truly needed? Sure, there are others I would've rather seen before Dynamic Duo, but this one is certainly a worthy addition to the collection, IMHO. - Jay IP: Logged |
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Wellington Member |
posted February 13, 2003 05:09 PM
This one's definitely on my list of eventual purchases. The $19.95 Batman Archives #1 in conjunction with the Greatest Batman (& Joker) Stories Ever Told tpb along with Batman in the 1950's (another eventual purchase) gives me enough of a feel for the grim vigilante era and the goofy alien-fighting era that I'd rather see some "new" stuff. I've always liked Infantino's work, and I'm looking forward to seeing a healthy amount reprinted in this Archive. This volume, Batman Archives #1, Batman in the 1950s, Strange Apparitions and the eventual complete Neal Adams Batman add up to a really nice overview of the pre-Crisis Batman. The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told tpb can be thrown in there, too, for the completist. IP: Logged |
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Marty Raap Member |
posted February 13, 2003 05:12 PM
We sort of had this debate about the whole idea of whether DC should jump ahead to SA Batman. While I would've preferred they continued to issue the Archives in chronological order in the existing lines, I think this material is definitely Archive worthy. I don't have it yet, but I'll certainly buy it, and I hope the line continues apace with all other lines now that it's been started. IP: Logged |
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James Friel Member |
posted February 14, 2003 03:59 AM
I had a look at it today, and after my public coolness to the idea, I guess that I've gotta say that it looks pretty nice. Infantino was at the height of his powers, and would have made anything he worked on look great. I won't mind having a copy--there are still things I'd rather have seen done, and I don't want to see it fast tracked or anything, but yeah, ok, it's a nice addition to the archives line. IP: Logged |
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Old Dude Member |
posted February 15, 2003 12:06 AM
quote: I second this idea. Concerning the new archive volume, I bought all the reprinted issues as they were published. I held on to them and read them repeatedly over the years. Eventually, when I was thinning the collection, I got rid of most of them, keeping mainly the Detective issues that Infantino drew. Man, they were beautiful! Unlike so many of my purges, this one I haven't repented of, that is I haven't kicked myself for selling them. They just didn't hold up for me. I recognize their worth for other collectors both as parts of the Batman mythos and for being just plain fun. So I applaud their inclusion in the archive program. But since I can't afford all the volumes, this is one I'm passing up. IP: Logged |
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REKLEN Member |
posted February 15, 2003 01:53 AM
You guys are so weird sometimes. The Batman of this 60s volume is essentially the same character of today. The only difference is that the stories in this volume are better written and drawn than any after 1970, with various one shots being the exception. And no this isn't just a matter of my personal opinion, it's fact. While I've always enjoyed the adventures of the golden age Batman (1939-1963) they were done in a more formularic style, with little variation. Basically, Commisioner Gordon calls Batman because Villain X has robbed a bank. Villain X challenges Batman, and beats him twice until Batman figures out the truth, and triumphs at the end, laughing with Commissioner Gordon. The first Batman archives was good, especially when Fox wrote the stories. But it lost it towards the end. And DC like to only reprint the goofier 50s era, and not the better 1940s stuff. People keep saying that Adams and O'neil saved the character. Hogwash! Schwartz and Infantino saved the character. They along with Broome and Fox re-invented Batman, revived the villains, brought back mystery, and most importantly, abandoned the cartoony approach that held the character back. Batman after 1970 has been the most inconsistant character ever. Read a run. Adams and O'Neil weren't a team for very long. Irv Novick and Ernie Chan drew some nice stories, but their never was a status quo. The series really deteriorated after one bullet too many (which was drawn by Novick.) Of course you guys probably didn't like Batman in the early 80s when he was drawn and written the best since the dynamic duo era, ala Colan and Newton. Batman was only consistently good in the sixties and eighties. Okay, maybe the forties, but I don't have a run of those few do. Reklen IP: Logged |
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James Friel Member |
posted February 15, 2003 02:12 AM
I'll agree that Schwartz and Infantino saved the character, Reklen. I may prefer some other versions, but you can't argue that point, really. I can't say that I agree that Batman was particularly good in the '80, though, or that the current masked psychopath is in any way admirable or enjoyable. If I wanted that kind of stuff, I'd go to action movies or watch commercial TV--and I don't do either of those things. IP: Logged |
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James Friel Member |
posted February 15, 2003 02:48 AM
Sorry, Reklen--that was a grumpy damned thing for me to say. IP: Logged |
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