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 The Batman---Creature of the Night (1970-74) - a preview of this year's slipcase? (Page 2)
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| Author | Topic: The Batman---Creature of the Night (1970-74) - a preview of this year's slipcase? |
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Osgood Peabody Member |
posted September 19, 2002 01:07 PM
  
In addition to the stories I listed initially, there are 2 World's Finest and 6 Brave and the Bold stories done by Adams (excluding the 2 already in the Deadman collection) that would add about 180 pages. If they go for 2 "jumbo" volumes of 350 pages apiece, they could include every Adams Batman story, plus the other worthy non-Adams stories from the "Creature of the Night" era on my list. Or - more likely unfortunately - not include them and have 2 volumes totalling about 550 pages. But assuming they release both volumes together, I cringe when I imagine the list price - $100? $150? IP: Logged |
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Osgood Peabody Member |
posted November 02, 2002 08:20 AM
Time for another bump. IP: Logged |
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Dave the Wonder Boy Member |
posted November 02, 2002 12:54 PM
I think an Adams Batman Archive or hardcover is long overdue. I'd do it as 3 separate volumes: DETECTIVE 395, 397, 400, 402, 404, 407, 408, 410, and concluding with 439's "Night of the Stalker", with a gorgeous Adams cover, and showing the Adams influence carrying over with great results to other artists. And then follow up with similar volumes of: (2nd volume) Neal Adams BATMAN, and (3rd volume) Neal Adams BRAVE & THE BOLD. IP: Logged |
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India Ink Member |
posted November 02, 2002 02:06 PM
Actually I'd flip it around with the B&B slipcase first. I'd also add in the two Adams WF stories. This way you'd have most of the early Adams work on Batman first. After they get the Adams Batman material out of the way, the next thing to collect is everything else--lots of covers and various short stories. If they can ever get around to doing a tabloid edition of Superman vs. Muhammad Ali, I'd like to suggest that they fill out the book with all those wrap-around covers that Adams did (not to mention other stuff like calendar art). IP: Logged |
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Dave the Wonder Boy Member |
posted November 02, 2002 07:20 PM
Chronologically, what you say makes the most sense, India Ink. My idea was to begin with the first official "Creature of the Night" Adams story, in DETECTIVE 395, the Beginning of the O'Neil/Adams/Giordano team. I forgot to mention the two WORLD'S FINEST stories by Adams. To me, the most logical place to include them is in the BRAVE & THE BOLD volume. Same era, building up to the O'Neil/Adams period. IP: Logged |
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Karl40 Member |
posted November 02, 2002 07:53 PM
IMO it just works best to do one slipcase of the Adams stories and covers from Batman and Detective. The page count works out perfectly, and I think it's best to keep the team-up stories, which had a much different tone and look, separate from the project. Besides, I fully expect the Adams B&B stories to show up in Archives relatively soon, and the two WF stories will probably eventually be captured in a WF Archive also. IP: Logged |
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KADE Member |
posted November 02, 2002 10:07 PM
Originally posted by Karl40: quote: I disagree with the comment about the "low collectible value of most original comic books post-1972." This was the era when I started collecting comics. I didn't collect then--and don't collect now--for future value. That's why I get aggravated when people talk about low collectible value. Everyone starts collecting at different times, so everyone's golden age of comics is different. Mine is the period 1973-1985. My comics were sold by my father when he moved into a smaller place in the late '80s. When I started collecting again I wanted to buy some of the comics again and discovered that someone was making some serious money. Why would anyone, for example, pay $60.00 for a near mint copy of Superman Family #164. That's what Mile High Comics wants for a copy. That's why I favor having comics through Crisis archived or paperbacked. Yes, it may take time to get to some of it, but it's got to be done. There was some good stuff back then--not overly serious at times, I admit, but some good stuff just the same. There's got to be a better--and less expensive way--to get a larger number of comics into the fans who really want them. Kevin IP: Logged |
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Karl40 Member |
posted November 03, 2002 12:31 AM
I disagree with the comment about the "low collectible value of most original comic books post-1972." This was the era when I started collecting comics. I didn't collect then--and don't collect now--for future value. That's why I get aggravated when people talk about low collectible value. Everyone starts collecting at different times, so everyone's golden age of comics is different. Mine is the period 1973-1985. Also, even though everyone's "golden age" is different, there were 4 or 5 times as many people celebrating that golden age with comics in the 1950s and 1960s as there were during the time you had yours. I've gotta think that would translate at least somewhat to poorer sales potential for Archives featuring typical post-'72 material, even decades from now. IP: Logged |
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James Friel Member |
posted November 03, 2002 02:32 AM
There are a couple of marked steps down in the general value of run-of-the-mill back issues--at roughly 1964 and 1972-75, corresponding with the growing realization on the part of the public that these things could be collectable and shouldn't be simply thrown out--and the first specialty retailers in very primitive form (1964), and the inception of the direct market with its ability to order in advance unlimited quantities of anything that looked as if it might become hot(1972-75). In both these cases, the supply end was affected. "Real" supply and demand economics goes out the window as soon as people begin to try to manipulate or outsmart it, which means that (with exceptions) the more popular titles such as Spider-man and X-Men, which everyone ordered extra copies of, are easy to find despite being in higher demand that most others--the supply is also larger. It's the titles from that period that no one speculated on that are going up now: war comics, mystery comics, and things like Superman Family. And Charltons. Who knew? Nobody knew. That's why they're going up now. IP: Logged |
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Karl40 Member |
posted November 03, 2002 03:38 AM
It's the titles from that period that no one speculated on that are going up now: war comics, mystery comics, and things like Superman Family. And Charltons. Who knew? Nobody knew. That's why they're going up now. ************************************* Yeah, absolutely - but I don't think the demand for these books is driven as much by nostalgia and affection as it is by collectors my age who've just run out of things to collect. The last few years of prosperity for Boomers, access to tons of old stuff via the internet, and a plethora of nice reprint books have all made it pretty easy to get many of the books or stories from our youth. Heck, out of boredom, I've even started collecting some war and humor comics, stuff I rarely bought as a kid. Again, it's just my opinion, but I don't think the recent spikes in demand for "overlooked" 1970s stuff will ever translate into successful Archives of that material. I think collectors enjoy the challenge of finding these books more than they do reading 'em (except maybe for the squarebounds - and they're mostly GA and SA reprints). IP: Logged |
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GaryUK Member |
posted November 04, 2002 12:29 PM
<<Meanwhile, an official word on the Neal Adams-Batman project will come out in a few days.>> Thought I'd bump this up because of the above quote from Bob Greenberger, from the 'questions for Bob Greenberger' thread. IP: Logged |
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Killer Moth New Member |
posted November 04, 2002 12:46 PM
I would definitely purchase Bronze Age archives (or TPB's)even if the original issues are fairly easy to come by. I don't collect any "floppies" these days (and will probably not do so in the future) but only trade paperbacks and hardbacks. I imagine that there are several others that fall into the mid-30's age demographic that would like reprints of the issues they read as kids in this format. IP: Logged |
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James Friel Member |
posted November 04, 2002 01:16 PM
I'm in my 50s, and have no nostalgia at all for the 1970s (and of course remember the '80s in general with unalloyed horror, though as far as comics went it was a good period for independent publishers), but still there are selected strips and periods of strips that I'd want in hardcover. Most of it, however, is because of the creators involved, not the characters or the period of continuity. IP: Logged |
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Silver Age Adam Member |
posted November 04, 2002 08:09 PM
quote: You know, even now, with respect to the new books on the shelves -- I buy per the artists, not necessarily the character. A good writer can really make any character a pleasure to read. ------------------ Send your extra comic books to our troops fighting in the Persian Gulf!! Emerald Storm c/o IP: Logged |
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KADE Member |
posted November 06, 2002 03:36 PM
quote: Monetary value is exactly what I'm talking about. I don't know where you guys are getting comics for under a buck, but here in south central Missouri it just isn't happening. The closest comics shop is 70 miles away, so I do a lot of on-line shopping. Mile High Comics has a lot of their '70s issues at such high prices that it makes you wonder. Lonestar is better at the pricing, but the quality isn't necessarily as good. The "local" comics shop is just plain high. You mention Flash 250-259 for $7.50. My question is, where are you getting them? If I could get them for under $5 a piece locally, I might be interested. I apologize for the rant, but some of you guys are truly blessed with your comics shops. I'm not. Kevin IP: Logged |
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Karl40 Member |
posted November 06, 2002 05:06 PM
Re: Flash 250-259 - that's just an example I pulled out of the sky, but I just went and looked at eBay, and in the completed auctions section there are many examples. One seller had 253-263, minus 260 - 10 books - vg to fine - that didn't attract any bids at $6.99. And at conventions, these and similar books are commonly found in $0.50 boxes. I know retail for mint copies is much, much higher, but my point is that experienced collectors can find these books for cheap, but 10 issues of mid-grade Flash comics from the early '60s are rarely found at better than 1/2 guide, or $15-$25 each. I'm just convinced that a great number of collectors buy Archives because they're an opportunity to read comics they otherwise can't afford. IP: Logged |
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Scippio Member |
posted November 08, 2002 01:29 PM
I could be wrong, but wasn't "Absolute Authority" this year's slipcase? IP: Logged |
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India Ink Member |
posted November 09, 2002 03:00 PM
I was sorting through my DC digests this morning when I cam across The Best of DC no. 18, featuring the Teen Titans. In this is a three-part story reprinted from Teen Titans (original series) nos. 20 - 22. It's credited to Neal Adams (story and pencils) and Nick Cardy (inks). Although, looking through it, some panels look like Adams, some look like Cardy, and some look like Rich Buckler. GCD credits Sal Amendola with work on a couple of pages. I was curious as to where DC might reprint this. Obviously, if they ever do a Teen Titans archive then it'll appear there (in the third volume), but this is something they would probably want to include in a slipcase or TPB collection. And would Adams want to "improve" on the art (given that some pages aren't up to his usual standard)? IP: Logged |
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India Ink Member |
posted November 09, 2002 04:10 PM
Adding to what I said in an earlier post on how I'd like to see a slipcase split up... I'd prefer three volumes. The first being, as I said Brave & Bold (minus Deadman team-ups) and the two WF stories. The second volume would simply subtract all Ra's al Ghul related stories from those originally in Detective or Batman. Using Osgood's listing, this would give the following contents for volume 2-- 1. "The Secret of the Waiting Graves" Detective #395 (Jan. 1970) DO/NA/DG (the 1st O'Neil/Adams Batman collaboration) 2. "The Silent Night of the Batman" Batman #219 (Feb. 1970) Mike Friedrich/NA/DG 3. "Paint a Picture of Peril" Detective #397 (Mar. 1970) DO/NA/DG 4. "Challenge of the Man-bat" Detective #400 (Jun. 1970) Frank Robbins/NA/DG 5. "Man or Bat?" Detective #402 (Aug. 1970) Frank Robbins/NA/DG 6. "Ghost of the Killer Skies" Detective #404 (Oct. 1970) DO/NA/DG (Enemy Ace tribute) 7. "Marriage: Impossible" Detective #407 (Jan. 1971) Frank Robbins/NA/DG (conclusion of the Man-Bat trilogy) 8. "The House That Haunted Batman" Detective #408 (Feb. 1971) Len Wein/Marv Wolfman/NA/DG (Surreal battle vs. Dr. Tzin-Tzin) 9. "A Vow from the Grave" Detective #410 (Apr. 1971) DO/NA/DG 10. "Half an Evil" Batman #234 (Aug. 1971) DO/NA/DG (return of Two-Face) 11. "Night of the Reaper" Batman #237 (Dec. 1971) DO/NA/DG (Classic Halloween story) 12. "The Joker's 5-Way Revenge" Batman #251 (Sep. 1973) DO/NA/DG (Return of the Joker) 13. "Moon of the Wolf" Batman #255 (Mar/Apr 1974) Len Wein/NA/DG (The final Adams-drawn story) PLUS all the Adams covers for those issues AND all Adams covers for Detective & Batman excluding covers for Ra's al Ghul related stories, and excluding wraparound covers (since these would be better printed in a different format). The third volume would be an expansion on the Tales of the Demon TPB. Using Osgood's listing and my own additions (* indicates my addition to the list, T* indicates a story contained in the Tales of the Demon TPB but not listed by Osgood), this would include-- 1. "The First of the Assassins" Detective #405 (Nov. 1970) DO/Bob Brown/Frank Giacoia (The first League of Assassins story - O'Neil's initial attempt to give the "new" Batman a worthy adversary, this would provide better context for the later Ras Al Ghul tales) 2. "Your Servant of Death - Dr. Darrk" Detective #406 (Dec. 1970) DO/Irv Novick/DG (2nd League of Assassins) 3. "Into the Den of the Death-Dealers" Detective #411 (May 1971) DO/Bob Brown/DG (3rd League of Assassins, and 1st appearance of Talia) 4. "Daughter of the Demon" Batman #232 (Jun. 1971) DO/NA/DG (The 1st Ra's Al-Ghul appearance) 5. "Swamp Sinister" Batman #235 (Sep. 1971) DO/Irv Novick/DG (not done by Adams, but an integral part of the Al-Ghul storyline) *6. "Where Strikes Demonfang" Justice League of America #94 (Nov. 1971) Mike Friedrich/NA/Dick Dillin/Joe Giella (ties together continuity for Deadman with continuity for al Ghul) 7. "Vengeance for a Dead Man" Batman #240 (Mar. 1972) DO/Irv Novick/DG (continues the Al-Ghul storyline) 8. "Bruce Wayne - Rest in Peace" Batman #242 (Jun. 1972) DO/Irv Novick/DG (begins the climactic trilogy with Ra's) 9. "The Lazarus Pit" Batman #243 (Aug. 1972) DO/NA/DG 10. "The Demon Lives Again" Batman #244 (Sep. 1972) DO/NA/DG 11. "The Bruce Wayne Murder Case" Batman #245 (Oct. 1972) DO/NA/DG (Coda to the Al-Ghul saga, featuring the only appearance of the Earth-1 Osgood Peabody T*12. "I Now Pronounce You Batman and Wife" DC Special Series #15 (Summer 1978) DO/Michael Golden/Dick Giordano T*13. "The Vengeance Vow" Detective #485 (Aug./Sept. 1979) DO/Don Newton/Dan Adkins T*14. "Where Strike the Assassins" Detective #489 (Apr. 1980) DO/Don Newton/Dan Adkins T*15. "Requiem for a Martyr" Detective #490 (May 1980) DO/Don Newton/Dan Adkins
vol. 1: The Brave & The Bold IP: Logged |
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Corrosive Kid Member |
posted November 09, 2002 06:57 PM
quote:
IP: Logged |
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India Ink Member |
posted November 09, 2002 07:50 PM
Hopefully all of those pages will be printed in a collected Comic Book Artist volume 3--given that I prefer to purchase CBA in that form. But surveying the Adams B&B work (I really don't have time to list the issues), I find that there are only seven stories to be reprinted, subtracting the Deadman team-ups. Add in the two World's Finest stories for a total of nine and that still leaves a B&B volume rather thin compared with the other two Batman volumes I propose. So if DC also reprinted the Teen Titans three parter (Batman did team with the Titans in one of the Adams B&B issues, and Robin is on that teen team, afterall) that would increase the number of stories to 12. Plus some of those lost pages. IP: Logged |
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James Friel Member |
posted November 10, 2002 04:34 AM
quote: Funny, huh? IP: Logged |
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BillNolan Member |
posted November 10, 2002 04:48 PM
Three volume set. Limited details here: http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0211/09/plansdc.htm Here's most of it: BATMAN: ILLUSTRATED BY NEAL ADAMS Creators: Writers Dennis O'Neil and various, artists Neal Adams and various. Release: Hardcover, second quarter 2003. Imprint: DC Universe. DC description: The art that initiated the modern look of the Dark Knight is collected in a 3-volume hardcover series that includes stories from Batman, Detective Comics, The Brave and The Bold and World's Finest. Plus, covers from those series and others. - Bill IP: Logged |
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India Ink Member |
posted November 10, 2002 07:59 PM
Looks like I got my suggestions for the three volumes in just under the wire. But from that link it's hard to tell just how much of the possible material DC will actually reprint. IP: Logged |
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Osgood Peabody Member |
posted November 10, 2002 09:04 PM
Interesting - I just hope they haven't padded the volumes with Adams Batman covers. His covers alone would nearly fill up half a volume. I also shudder to think of the retail price of these books. IP: Logged |
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